Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09
Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> Fri, 07 April 2017 19:37 UTC
Return-Path: <lear@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C86D126CD8
for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 12:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.523
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01,
RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001,
SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5]
autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
header.d=cisco.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44])
by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id hzMGdQQK8TU1 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>;
Fri, 7 Apr 2017 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C39C4128DE5
for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 12:37:50 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple;
d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2425; q=dns/txt; s=iport;
t=1491593870; x=1492803470;
h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version:
in-reply-to; bh=pbVUJGQkz7nfdqh/h6AHKeosFI4raM5vwd6EtioaVKo=;
b=BhN1ayn+uzqwpbLkUBd6AsGy1q739BBCGZelgbKzSJxPRuNuF19PeGze
SUKYP9N6qGPf6qX58D7ELoDHjEv8vlntY7oAAnGW9O2osjg7KpIiSIz/N
bRdzkx7N37Akpd6gzDxVOwQu6enV2JAKIUf6vu0gOh0cx1JIMIxTakSFA w=;
X-Files: signature.asc : 481
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DEAQAx6udY/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?=
=?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBiSOKE3OQMh+VV4IPhiIChBwYAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFFgEFI2YLGCo?=
=?us-ascii?q?CAlcGAQwIAQGKC6p9giaKawEBAQEBAQQBAQEBAQEBEg+IUwmCYodcgl8BBJx4g?=
=?us-ascii?q?32CDYxOimOGXZN/HziBBSUWCBgVhx4+iW0BAQE?=
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.37,167,1488844800";
d="asc'?scan'208";a="652003786"
Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com)
([173.38.203.22])
by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384;
07 Apr 2017 19:37:27 +0000
Received: from [10.61.229.24] ([10.61.229.24])
by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v37JbQYu031238;
Fri, 7 Apr 2017 19:37:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09
To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <CABkgnnU-rFL6sPTx=Y2rh6vzf9NSiLmMTQPMFNgrV+-Fq29+dA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
Message-ID: <8496267e-3d06-c8ef-3043-4041276dbda0@cisco.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 21:37:25 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CABkgnnU-rFL6sPTx=Y2rh6vzf9NSiLmMTQPMFNgrV+-Fq29+dA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256;
protocol="application/pgp-signature";
boundary="kI9Gh8ipfoPFqG6W1OkQTkPuMR2mkUro1"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/bFWfVt_KCtE2ZMVT6wntbDXw2-4>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>,
<mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>,
<mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 19:37:52 -0000
On 4/7/17 5:24 AM, Martin Thomson wrote: > To the extent that we have the tools necessary to protect against pervasive > monitoring, we have to accept that more-legitimate uses of monitoring are > collateral[...] ... DAMAGE. You couldn't even say the word. The whole point of the document is to expand upon the implications of what operational practices are impacted in an encrypted world. That doesn't mean people should stop encrypting, but it does mean that we should understand what is breaking. To do otherwise is to stick our heads in the sand. Let's not do that. And let's not question whether a particular function is "legitimate" which ironically applies a value judgment, something that you yourself complained about. Better to focus on whether the impact of encryption has indeed been well documented. Eliot ps: but I agree with your point about statistics.
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Christian Huitema
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Martin Thomson
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Martin Thomson
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Kathleen Moriarty
- Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Martin Thomson
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: Review of draft-mm-wg-effect-encrypt-09 Eliot Lear