Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.S., should the IETF respond?
Naeem Khademi <naeem.khademi@gmail.com> Mon, 30 January 2017 10:50 UTC
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From: Naeem Khademi <naeem.khademi@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:50:48 +0100
Message-ID: <CAEjQQ5VsTkQ-SdE98DarFSBMacUReTEQs8j1X4RL0CJ3ttS7kg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.S., should the IETF respond?
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
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On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 9:57 AM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote: > > + <many> > > Three additional comments: > > -- Part of the problem with this set of moves is that they are > sudden and, at least in detail, unanticipated. There is little > or nothing a meeting site selection process that is designed > around working three or five years out can do about countries > (or their leadership) that suddenly go nuts (including canceling > existing valid visa and forbidding legal residents from > returning), acts of war, or even natural disasters that occur, > effectively, overnight. For those types of situations, our > only useful and practical remedies are making remote > participation work well and smoothly even if forced to scale up > considerably and thinking through, as a set of contingency > options, questions of the conditions under which we would cancel > a meeting entirely and/or convert it to "everyone is remote". > Even remote hubs are irrelevant unless they have, well in > advance, arrangements to scale up to accommodate all > participants from a particular country or category. > Just answering this specific additional comment: for the very same reason IETF will perhaps NEVER hold any meeting in certain countries due to their unpredictable behavior or sudden policy shifts or unstable political situation, we could argue that planning of further meetings in the US can potentially be re-considered by the IETF and the currently-planned meetings (except Chicago which is too imminent) can be relocated to Europe or elsewhere (at least for the next 8 years "until we know what's going on there" ;-). Naeem > > -- For those of us who live and vote in the US, especially in > so-called "red states", contacting legislative representatives > and making it clear that damage to US values, companies, and > ability to do business will cost them votes in the next election > if they don't take effective action. That doesn't make > organizational statements less useful, but, as Dave points out, > those most responsible seem extremely unlikely to listen. > > -- I'm sympathetic to efforts in other countries to, e.g., ban > or severely constrain contacts and state visits. Unfortunately, > if the mentality that seems to pervade the new US administration > continues, their likely response will be stick their fingers in > their virtual ears and chant "America First". This stupid, > shameful, action really needs to be dealt with on this side of > what ponds and planned virtual or physical walls can be > identified. > > john > > > --On Sunday, January 29, 2017 18:37 -0900 Melinda Shore > <melinda.shore@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 1/29/17 4:39 PM, Dave Crocker wrote: > >> The folk at the head of the current administration don't care > >> about such statements. But perhaps others who can effect > >> change might. > > > > Right, including our congressional representatives. There is > > likely to be a legislative response to what the administration > > is trying to do, and if industry bodies speak up that can > > provide them additional support and cover, I think. > > > > I do think that issuing both IETF-only and joint statements > > with other organizations would be a good thing. > > > > Melinda > > > > > > > > >
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- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… nalini.elkins
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- RE: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Roni Even
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Melinda Shore
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… John C Klensin
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Randy Bush
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Naeem Khademi
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Naeem Khademi
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Leif Johansson
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Leif Johansson
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Stewart Bryant
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- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Leif Johansson
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Christer Holmberg
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- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… David Farmer
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… nalini.elkins
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- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Randy Bush
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Niels ten Oever
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Melinda Shore
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Michael StJohns
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Alia Atlas
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… John C Klensin
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Melinda Shore
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Saifi Khan
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Paul Wouters
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Rich Kulawiec
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Jari Arkko
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Jari Arkko
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Emily Shepherd
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Dan Harkins
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Emily Shepherd
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Randy Bush
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Alejandro Acosta
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Dan Harkins
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Randy Bush
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Arturo Servin
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Dan Harkins
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Matthew Kerwin
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Jari Arkko
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Naeem Khademi
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Jari Arkko
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… S Moonesamy
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Stephen Farrell
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Tim Chown
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… Jari Arkko
- Re: If categories of people are blocked by the U.… nalini.elkins
- Re: If Muslims are blocked by the U.S., should th… Bless, Roland (TM)