Re: leader statements
Suzanne Woolf <woolf@isc.org> Thu, 10 October 2013 18:58 UTC
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Subject: Re: leader statements
From: Suzanne Woolf <woolf@isc.org>
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Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 14:56:26 -0400
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References: <ABCF1EB7-3437-4EC3-B0A8-0EDB2EDEA538@ietf.org> <20131007225129.GA572@laperouse.bortzmeyer.org> <6.2.5.6.2.20131008213432.0c1e4b30@resistor.net> <20131009064438.GA47673@mx1.yitter.info> <E003D3DC4E4B3208CF14E8E0@JcK-HP8200.jck.com> <20131009192715.GG49231@mx1.yitter.info> <5255B647.4090103@gmail.com> <93D54BF0-FFE6-4A3D-ADDE-7EC2FC3AFBC0@isi.edu> <5256F239.1000400@gmail.com>
To: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com>
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On Oct 10, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com> wrote: > I really think we need to stop behaving as if the IETF is a > small group of people who know each other well. Consensus > decision-making does not scale well with the number of > participants, and if we're going to require consensus on > every leadership decision we're not going to get anything > done. Now, being frozen and inactive may be preferable to > having Jari and Russ go off and make a cooperative public > statement about internet governance, but it seems to me that > as long as we have recall and appeals processes we have > incentives for IETF and IAB chairs, and IESG and IAB members, > not to go off and do controversial things unilaterally, as > well as a remedy if they do. This seems exactly right to me, with the additional observation that even if we're insisting that the leadership get consensus on such issues as the Montevideo statement, we're still trusting them to find, frame, and bring us the right issues. In other words, it's trust all the way down, and if we don't trust the leadership to identify relevant issues and address them sanely, obtaining that all-but-impossible consensus is just going to leave us with the same problem that people will want consensus first on what questions are worth addressing and how the consensus is to be expressed. Among other weaknesses, this doesn't seem to be a way to demonstrate to the interested participant/observer that we know how to manage the challenges of scaling things. Suzanne
- Re: Montevideo statement Noel Chiappa
- Montevideo statement IETF Chair
- Re: Montevideo statement Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: Montevideo statement Jari Arkko
- Re: Montevideo statement Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Montevideo statement Martin Millnert
- Re: Montevideo statement Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Montevideo statement manning bill
- Re: Montevideo statement Michael Richardson
- Re: Montevideo statement Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Montevideo statement Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Montevideo statement manning bill
- Re: Montevideo statement SM
- Re: Montevideo statement Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Montevideo statement joel jaeggli
- Re: Montevideo statement Ted Lemon
- Re: Montevideo statement John C Klensin
- Re: Montevideo statement Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Montevideo statement Russ Housley
- Re: Montevideo statement joel jaeggli
- leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Montevideo statement Arturo Servin
- Re: Montevideo statement SM
- Re: Montevideo statement Russ Housley
- Re: leader statements Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Montevideo statement Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: leader statements Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: leader statements Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: leader statements Brian E Carpenter
- "The core Internet institutions abandon the US Go… Carsten Bormann
- Re: leader statements Scott Brim
- Re: leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) SM
- Re: leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) Jari Arkko
- Re: Montevideo statement Medel v6 Ramirez
- Re: Montevideo statement Dave Crocker
- Re: leader statements manning bill
- Re: leader statements Arturo Servin
- Re: leader statements (was: Montevideo statement) manning bill
- Re: leader statements Melinda Shore
- Re: Montevideo statement Jari Arkko
- Re: Montevideo statement Ted Lemon
- Re: leader statements Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: Montevideo statement Dave Crocker
- Re: Montevideo statement Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Montevideo statement SM
- Re: Montevideo statement Jari Arkko
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… Jorge Amodio
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… John Levine
- Re: leader statements Suzanne Woolf
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… Jorge Amodio
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… Dave Crocker
- Re: "The core Internet institutions abandon the U… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Montevideo statement Michael Richardson
- Re: Montevideo statement Jari Arkko
- Re: Montevideo statement John C Klensin
- Re: Montevideo statement Randy Bush
- Re: [IETF] Re: Montevideo statement Warren Kumari
- Re: Montevideo statement Jorge Amodio
- Re: [IETF] Re: Montevideo statement shogunx