Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise levels

"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Wed, 11 February 2015 17:47 UTC

Return-Path: <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17AD1A1B62 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:47:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.902
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SQM6Pd5ZR5oD for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:47:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mailc2.tigertech.net (mailc2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE9F71A8A1A for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:47:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailc2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90DD01BC1FCE; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:47:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at c2.tigertech.net
Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (pool-70-106-134-12.clppva.east.verizon.net [70.106.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailc2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DCCAB1BC1FD3; Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:47:07 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <54DB9595.5020807@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 12:47:01 -0500
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
Subject: Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise levels
References: <54D903C0.6050209@gmail.com> <B042A12A-8168-48DD-8808-326E1BFA7A8E@cisco.com> <B31EEDDDB8ED7E4A93FDF12A4EECD30D40E22FCD@GLKXM0002V.GREENLNK.net> <54DB88B9.7010507@levkowetz.com> <54DB8D5C.2040508@dcrocker.net> <54DB904E.90008@levkowetz.com>
In-Reply-To: <54DB904E.90008@levkowetz.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/cUSVngbEo6kWd_lMCS0DfWgKzwk>
Cc: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 17:47:13 -0000

I was not understanding the problem, until I got 5 copies of the same 
notice about a draft this morning.
The notice was explicitly sent to draft.all, the working group, and the 
working group chairs.
So .all sent one to the chairs, the explicit chairs listing sent one to 
the chairs, and of course the chairs are on the working group list.

So part of the problem is that both chairs and the working group got 
listed in the notify line:
Send notices to:	ggx@gigix.net, 
draft-ietf-lisp-introduction.all@ietf.org, lisp@ietf.org, 
lisp-chairs@ietf.org

Since I doubt that my co-chair made that change, I presume tooling did 
so.  But listing the chairs and the working group is not actually 
helpful in most cases (I can imagine corner cases, but ...)

So I am not sure how it produced 5, but there does seem to be some truly 
unnecessary duplication here.

Yours,
Joel

On 2/11/15 12:24 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> On 2015-02-11 18:11, Dave Crocker wrote:
>> On 2/11/2015 8:52 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>> The aliases that are created currently are as follows (except that
>>> aliases that have empty expansions are not created):
>> ...
>>
>>
>> Besides the email you just sent, where is this documented?
>
> We're working on both help pages for the aliases with this information,
> and pages that will let your search/inspect the generated aliases.  They
> will be part of the next datatracker release.
>
>> A newbie  should be able to easily learn of these addresses and where
>> they go.
>>
>> At a minimum, I suggest replicated the relevant parts of the text you
>> just sent on the page:
>>
>>     http://www.ietf.org/id-info/
>
> Sound reasonable, I guess.  I'll Bcc the secretariat on this email.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> 	Henrik
>
>