Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps]

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sun, 28 December 2014 19:09 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F23BD1A8AA6 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:09:41 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E9RZImq3sr9A for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:09:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pd0-x22e.google.com (mail-pd0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FECF1A8A90 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:09:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pd0-f174.google.com with SMTP id fp1so15758563pdb.5 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:09:39 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Uv3+c+TGV7OW1deH7RQxOSJ8b+qTKwqLnsqVyL9SOEA=; b=jFxctA8t0tVktArsOPd9wDZzTSvf0pZoQdpsSQ2nf4/YvPuzyWjhcKokolej8QeeKr 3FrAkagj0p4FgpKuPqen8JJN/8SyXmmAfy3QjCTpsF6+N5jho8I0O/f63J5fDawZPf4a y+6jeQ4krLYHYXxZO6nX+SQORrOBa4P1FzvGo/NjGwCd7OeJkL2unB5wjwcpooLNyDV4 iF6ziREa9cvUZay03QppLsHa9Izs4jQhj9qRTKHtgun6rszCScUED2dtkXng6moixP73 hshk55SRuKg39Jou11LNaLBkuq0jZMORge9r1K/ljF72u8c0Ha86n1RCCxbbkAF5QGDR gXfw==
X-Received: by 10.68.201.232 with SMTP id kd8mr8790217pbc.164.1419793779199; Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:09:39 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:519e:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:519e:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ig1sm33562323pbc.41.2014.12.28.11.09.35 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:09:37 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <54A05568.705@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 08:09:28 +1300
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: dcrocker@bbiw.net, Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps]
References: <5614C286-0CD2-4DAD-A846-510EE38D1B9A@ietf.org> <549DAE1C.5080400@gmail.com> <54A02C8A.3020707@qti.qualcomm.com> <54A04CDC.8020009@dcrocker.net>
In-Reply-To: <54A04CDC.8020009@dcrocker.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/cX2Fu_HhK21sK5zXuHuIH2ciOPI
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2014 19:09:42 -0000

On 29/12/2014 07:33, Dave Crocker wrote:
...
>> However, we have not found that ADs are so specialized that there
>> is a "correct" AD for every WG,
> 
> raises the possibility that AD job descriptions ought to make
> explicit reference to cross-area skills?  This, of course, leads to
> the challenge of figuring out what that means, in pragmatic terms.

This ties back into Nico's point about maybe flattening the hierarchy (*)
and essentially abolishing areas as such. I have much sympathy with that,
although it's a bit scary. But it means that we would indeed change the
criteria for picking ADs. We wouldn't be looking for, say, a Transport AD
who is a widely recognised expert on congestion control, or a Security AD
who is competent to verify a crypto algorithm. In fact, over-specialisation
would be a *disqualification* for serving on the IESG.

Serving as a Gen-ART reviewer has been a great experience for me, but has
often forced me out of my technical comfort zone. It would be the same
for the IESG in such a new order. They would have to depend more than
today on expert reviewers.

(*) I have just read "The Innovators" by Walter Isaacson, which I highly
recommend as history of our corner of the world. He makes the point that
successful innovation in our technology has mainly taken place in
flattened hierarchies, or despite the hierarchy. The IETF is mentioned
a couple of times in the book, along with names like Cerf, Kahn,
Berners-Lee and Crocker (the other one).

Regards
   Brian