Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise levels
Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> Mon, 09 February 2015 22:25 UTC
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Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2015 16:25:12 -0600
From: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
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Subject: Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise levels
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One detail that's a consequence of what's below that I wanted to highlight: If a group is getting copied on the state change notices for a document right now, it's because the group is listed in the "Send notices to" (aka Notify) field in the datatracker. If a chair wants to alter that for a document (or all documents for a group), they can do so by editing the notify field (or asking their AD to do so). In any case, I suggest coordinating that with the appropriate AD given what's in the links I sent below. RjS On 2/9/15 2:11 PM, Robert Sparks wrote: > Hi Brian: > > There are a couple of moving targets in what you're objecting to that > I think we need to be careful to tease apart. > > Here's a bit of detail to help with that (I hope): > > 1) the .all alias includes any address that is covered by any other > generated alias (currently that's .authors, .chairs, .ad, and .notify) > > 2) the .notify alias is populated directly from the Notify field for a > draft in the tracker. You can see what that's currently set to for a > draft by looking at the "Send notifications to" line on the document's > main page. > > 3) The IESG directed that when a working group draft begins IESG > processing, the working group be added to the notify field by default. > See > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/wgchairs/current/msg12989.html > and > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/wgchairs/current/msg12992.html > > So, I _think_ the conversation you need to be having to address your > objection is with the IESG on the decision to add the group to the > default notification list. > > That said, there are some things we're doing to the aliases to make > where things are coming from easier to figure out. None of what's > below will change whether a working group gets the state-change > notifications, but it may help explain other aspects of what you've > been recently seeing. > > 4) We're working on providing pages that show the expansions of the > aliases at ietf.org similar to the pages that are at tools.ietf.org. > This isn't happening immediately because the mail processing systems > are different, and there are some extra gears that we're having to > incorporate. > > 5) The most recent datatracker releases have made incremental changes > to the way the aliases are used. In particular, mail sent through the > aliases should end up with fully expanded To header fields at this > point. We are also working on adding the fields (already present when > using @tools.ietf.org aliases) that make it easy to see exactly what > alias got invoked. > > 6) From the links above, you'll see that part of the original > implementation was to add .all to the Notify field (in addition to the > working group). That led to some trouble since .all contains .notify - > there's an include loop, and some of the dynamics of integrating with > the mail handling at @ietf.org vs @tools.ietf.org led to not catching > that loop in the right place (this was affecting a few drafts last > week). This has been addressed, both by more careful loop protection, > and by changing what gets put in Notify to not use .all directly. > > Again, those last 3 items are just part of the context - they don't > affect the primary concern you're raising. That lives solidly with > spirit of the decision at item 3) above. > > RjS > > On 2/9/15 1:00 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I see that the tracker has started using email aliases of the >> form draft-ietf-WG-*.all@ietf.org to report on state changes, >> and that these aliases now apparently include the WG as well >> as the interested parties. >> >> This is highly obnoxious. One problem is that for most recipients >> the messages are pure noise (and any follow-up messages whose CC >> list isn't manually pruned are additional noise). Another problem >> is that they are in effect BCC'ed to the WG, so existing filters >> don't catch these messages. A consequent problem of that is that >> many people are likely to do what I'm about to do: figure out how >> to spam filter all this noise, thereby risking to miss any such messages >> that actually matter. >> >> Please please please remove the WG lists from these aliases. >> If something really needs to be brought to the WG's attention, >> there are people who know they should do that. >> >> Regards >> Brian Carpenter >> >> >
- Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise lev… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Robert Sparks
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… John C Klensin
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Robert Sparks
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Pete Resnick
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Eggert, Lars
- RE: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… t.p.
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Lou Berger
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Robert Sparks
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Robert Sparks
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… t.p.
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Jari Arkko
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Dave Crocker
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Joel M. Halpern
- RE: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… George, Wes
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… George, Wes
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Robert Sparks
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… George, Wes
- Re: Strong objection to draft-ietf-WG-*.all noise… Robert Sparks