Re: New-comers (was Re: the old fellowship program)

Michael Thomas <> Sat, 17 April 2021 15:07 UTC

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Subject: Re: New-comers (was Re: the old fellowship program)
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From: Michael Thomas <>
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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 08:07:18 -0700
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On 4/16/21 8:03 PM, John C Klensin wrote:
> But Randy's other point is, IMO, important too.  Suppose we
> could adopt a rule that forbade snarling at people until after
> they had participated in the IETF for a few years and magically
> changed the culture so that everyone observed it, at the same
> time declaring open season on people with longer participation
> records or at least a couple of RFCs behind them.  Whether
> because of what Randy describes as having a shred of empathy or
> because of the sense that they are likely to be treated
> obnoxiously and aggressively about the time they were ready to
> make significant contributions, people would still go away after
> watching others be mistreated, abused, or dismissed.

I don't know how you enforce such a thing because who knows whether 
somebody is new to IETF or just new to a particular working group? 
Frankly there ought not be such a distinction, as it is intimately 
related to the "security researcher" problem discussed previously. The 
problem is that too often working groups become fiefdoms and accrue 
self-coronated manner lords while the chairs sit idly by, or worse 
enable them. It is extremely off putting for chairs to shut down 
questions as off topic or members jumping down your throat for questions 
that cannot reasonably be answered any other way. Who needs that kind of 
grief? Especially when you're not getting paid to take it.