Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ?

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 28 October 2020 21:56 UTC

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Subject: Re: [rfc-i] Jim: Re: FIXED: Poll: RFCs with page numbers (pretty please) ?
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Cc: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, John Levine <ietf@johnlevine.com>, IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, RFC Interest <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>, rsoc@iab.org, Jim Fenton <fenton@bluepopcorn.net>, David Noveck <davenoveck@gmail.com>
References: <20201026181442.GA2438@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <CADaq8jdSeTDWy_0fCV25ykxKFMV1ZBtUMMNesoOuaXCzFVfpOA@mail.gmail.com> <D2D0455D-8D6C-4A19-ACAE-4DD972D83DC1@bluepopcorn.net> <20201028164053.GB12700@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <263C265C19B24BA97AF48934@PSB> <CAHw9_iJVdE9hdpy9o6mSRFbHR4CZ8SUdU1NURGP4gS6YTWPXmg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 10:56:17 +1300
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One more comment with all these CCs and then I will try to shut up.
On 29-Oct-20 09:01, Warren Kumari wrote:
...
> I've gotten 2 distinctly negative impressions from this thread:
> 1: "You need to join the modern era and get with the program" sums it
> up well. HTML / flowed output is the new world, liking the text format
> is bad and you should feel bad[0].
> 
> 2: There were extensive discussions around the new format, and the
> lack of page numbers was mentioned. You were not paying attention when
> this happened. Not only do you lose any right to discuss this, but you
> were lazy and should feel bad.
> 
> I'll happily admit that I didn't follow the new format discussions
> closely, and that I do read a lot of things (including books) in
> formats which don't have clear "pages", but the thing that is worrying
> me is the underlying "and you should feel bad" tone in much of this
> discussion.

Agreed. Yes, there was active discussion of this issue 6 years ago,
but in a vacuum (no running code). Now we have running code, revisiting
the issue in the light of experience is the right thing to do. Nothing
to feel bad about. I hope none of my messages made anyone feel bad.

However, we don't currently have the organizational framework needed
for this discussion. There is active discussion of the organizational
issue right now, on rfced-future@iab.org. Please join.

   Brian