Re: Quality of Directorate reviews

Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com> Wed, 06 November 2019 11:03 UTC

Return-Path: <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471E012085F for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:03:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BoeWVSSxHFPM for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:03:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qt1-x835.google.com (mail-qt1-x835.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::835]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9CBB1200C7 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:03:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-qt1-x835.google.com with SMTP id h2so19987051qto.1 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 03:03:04 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0HwpLDO2CTXL3FA993J3pr0xUC9cnfmb6XNuHSKfvgU=; b=QPBGmqdoXFzzLDR8FVAAHaYJye/lLTH97pdwaMJ7XMPQTRJzN8/CU1hRUiDFV8ROxQ ikfX0uJo+CjGOOvxQM7nGFA22gPlSDEK5oAbBRyuSvs4ZKUig8OpRA1A/unoUSIJ1H+9 fIUcSc5rE0WAcHSIsaCooug9vldJcd+zDJoFoPXgfEeZyhy+aZtzmVEwzGLEgx8syoPN 9xCgazxGcOcVIedfOHzNCj69PyShUrg4MkE1hLQfQlNKo+GeI5STaD0brcXH6/EnmlPw SL6FB7vqUxpDedQcZ6153FXanOWhz1r1woWpsIQVIYUZuWImQMRkS4B09b8EEsvxS06N QVvg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0HwpLDO2CTXL3FA993J3pr0xUC9cnfmb6XNuHSKfvgU=; b=Wn+nTZsq0SwkNjFDDP90kROJ9cMDx5yeqEVb5xP1/ry6+XHQ1ubi2ptZp55Al7Zyf7 RK2BYh4vbX5vfwAMg2Dw2YkSi39MjvKzICgS3Nc4Oax7b+zaBlKsRJ+Wu9fgK6Qsj0Vc 30k2Vlw+EYq+MacNimWuX5zg91yn+GZaEj7EUFWAxcUCx98r/Kqh5Gv65hJjEsuhq35V E368KWbbGLi1gFf1YrRwSOcZyvFrNQbeEVvOes/EhytmKdDIGquHeU0xrBS+G5cVlHfQ nIeB4g89D6iQuCD6m8Zau+/DK9/3UVPAwsVNJv2OaWkQYgY3EwoCLwptTmHCFsOscjeC hzpQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUQN2ySwq3AtzXQfBKX9TYCS8ZXc9VmwAFR77nBDLzQo2Sfks1U CNfERqAqEjZphkQHRTI3NlY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxuoqAneeUjdyQhqOGvTM0RQTCac8TD/QyPCLOq9xI6B74MnDYIO/e6zokRWefgxsnbogG+ww==
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:27a2:: with SMTP id w31mr1749420qtw.227.1573038183926; Wed, 06 Nov 2019 03:03:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?IPv6:2601:18f:801:5225:c23:1fd5:e1a2:3b67? ([2601:18f:801:5225:c23:1fd5:e1a2:3b67]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p54sm16658664qta.39.2019.11.06.03.03.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Nov 2019 03:03:03 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\))
Subject: Re: Quality of Directorate reviews
From: Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <2668fa45-7667-51a6-7cb6-4b704c7fba5a@isode.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 06:03:01 -0500
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <2C97D18E-3DA0-4A2D-8179-6D86EB835783@gmail.com>
References: <157279399807.13506.13363770981495597049.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <0EF64763-BA25-468A-B387-91445A61D318@gmail.com> <CAJU8_nUovmFmgNiYx0ez_1f+GPdU9xGViDYWfowEEomrn0pyDw@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LRH.2.21.1911040841160.27600@bofh.nohats.ca> <CE06CC6D-E37F-4C90-B782-D14B1D715D4B@cable.comcast.com> <38E47448-63B4-4A5D-8A9D-3AB890EBDDDD@akamai.com> <09886edb-4302-b309-9eaa-f016c4487128@gmail.com> <26819.1572990657@localhost> <2668fa45-7667-51a6-7cb6-4b704c7fba5a@isode.com>
To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/eW7jxBp9EaWMnNSiKrcP4btHp44>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 11:03:06 -0000


> On Nov 6, 2019, at 5:34 AM, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> On 05/11/2019 21:50, Michael Richardson wrote:
>> 
>> Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If we want the IESG job to be more reasonably sized, we have to take
>>> work away from the ADs. As far as I can see, that means taking away
>>> their duty of acting as final reviewers. I don't want to name names
>>> because I don't think the ADs are to be blamed individually, but some
>>> of them spend *enormous* effort on detailed reviews.
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> I think that there is a lack of trust by ADs of the various directorates.
> 
> Other ADs have commented on this, but I think I need to repeat what they
> said and expand on it.
> 
> Results are vary varied. Some are quite good (e.g. Gen-Art) and others
> really depend on reviewer. ADs responsible for Directorates are faces
> with the choice of firing half of their Directorates (which has some
> rather unfortunate consequences) and/or raise the bar on who should be
> allowed to join. We already struggle to recruit people at all levels of
> our organization.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Alexey

We shouldn't be depending on last-minute quality checks to maintain the quality of our output.  Working groups should be producing documents that are ready to publish, and develop trust that their documents are high quality.

- Ralph

>