Re: ietf.org end-to-end principle

joel jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com> Thu, 17 March 2016 17:51 UTC

Return-Path: <joelja@bogus.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99AF212D97C for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:51:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZO9kdGvEQfMt for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:51:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72BE112DA22 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:48:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mb-2.local ([8.18.217.194]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id u2HHmNc4029370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:48:23 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com)
Subject: Re: ietf.org end-to-end principle
To: Josh Howlett <Josh.Howlett@jisc.ac.uk>, Stefan Winter <stefan.winter@restena.lu>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <56E90BF9.4090306@cisco.com> <871189680.1322359.1458113811142.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <CAHw9_i+yFhJVYvcMLSEgkOkqJjZBsQicCQsi13SaoVQuzxqc8g@mail.gmail.com> <5D6893D1-D61C-490C-91EF-CA5E5C1F484A@piuha.net> <56EA63E3.2070602@restena.lu> <VI1PR07MB15815DEAB1939141F0DCCCF3BC8B0@VI1PR07MB1581.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
From: joel jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>
Message-ID: <0d8166a6-8266-d0c7-e30f-229bf2dadfce@bogus.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:48:22 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR07MB15815DEAB1939141F0DCCCF3BC8B0@VI1PR07MB1581.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="tRCv1UOOFqsrMD7vwWwdT57TAfiKOSVJu"
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/eXFzKJfekVTD07fESQUvdAkoABg>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:51:09 -0000

On 3/17/16 2:50 AM, Josh Howlett wrote:
>> The takeaway for me is that the end-to-end principle is dead. The
>> times where all intelligence should be in end hosts only, no
>> middleboxes, and KISS have gone, and techniques going in the
>> opposite direction are not only in use, but even embraced by IETF
>> operations.
> 
> +1
> 
> But the fact that these solutions exist points to a need unmet by
> existing e2e approaches. Someone in IETF operations had presumably
> thought out their requirements when this service was procured.
> Embedding e2e within a solution that satisfies those same operational
> requirements sounds like a potential IETF WG charter in the making.

I'm  not really sure what you folks are talking about anymore. A CDN
whether internal or a third party is an extension of the applications
stack, not a bump in the wire.

building scalable performant low latency services is a distributed
systems problem and there are a number of areas of the ietf activity
(all of them probably) involved in doing.

> Josh.
> 
> Jisc is a registered charity (number 1149740) and a company limited
> by guarantee which is registered in England under Company No.
> 5747339, VAT No. GB 197 0632 86. Jisc’s registered office is: One
> Castlepark, Tower Hill, Bristol, BS2 0JA. T 0203 697 5800.
> 
> Jisc Services Limited is a wholly owned Jisc subsidiary and a company
> limited by guarantee which is registered in England under company
> number 2881024, VAT number GB 197 0632 86. The registered office is:
> One Castle Park, Tower Hill, Bristol BS2 0JA. T 0203 697 5800.
> 
>