Re: Functional differentiation and administrative restructuring

Hi John,

No problem, my skin is not that thin.  As i have tried to explain on 
the IETF list, i think we need to understand all options including 
these two extremes - the ones not specifically covered in the mud 
document.  I find the models expressed in the document somewhat 
incomplete and slightly disingenuous in that they don't discuss the 
implications of the end of the road - as far as i can tell they hand 
wave about 'extraneous' results.  And while I have never managed to get 
invovled in the policy part of IETF+ISOC, it is something i care about 
quite a bit.

So if my notes provoke the discussion, even in the form of 'rants', i 
am satisfied.

And thanks for the apology.

a.

ps. i don't have the negative connotations to absorbtion that you do.  
I see that as another term for merger, though, since ISOC is the real 
entity from a corporate point of view, it would constitute an 
absortion.  It is the conditions, as in by-law changes and perhaps 
MOUs, that determine whether this is beneficial or destructive.

On 8 sep 2004, at 09.41, John C Klensin wrote:

>
>
> --On Wednesday, 08 September, 2004 08:53 -0400 avri@psg.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Thanks for you analysis.  It was something I felt lacking and
>> has helping me in my wavering between the absorption into ISOC
>> model and the independent corporate model.
>>
>> I look forward to your analysis of the absorption model.
>
> Avri, I want to apologize in advance for using your note as the
> excuse for the rant below.   You are certainly not the first
> person to do this and probably won't be the last; your note just
> arrived at a convenient time.
>
> <rant>
> I think we need to be very careful about slapping labels of
> convenience on options and then getting distracted by what those
> labels "mean".  Doing so can really distract from a productive
> discussion in which information is exchanged.    There has been
> a lot of that sort of distraction, and the associated confusion,
> going on, since even before San Diego.
>
> "Absorption" is a loaded term.  If we are asked "how would you
> like to be absorbed into foo", the answer has got to be "no".
> For me, at least, the recurring image is some rather unpleasant
> (for the food) digestion process.  But, to my knowledge, no one
> has seriously proposed anything of the sort.   Certainly the
> standards process has not been "absorbed".   I doubt that the
> RFC Editor staff would consider themselves "absorbed".  There
> are unincorporated organizations in addition than the IETF which
> have worked closely with ISOC for years and haven't been
> "absorbed" either.
>
> And "independent corporate model", while less loaded
> semantically (at least for me), is almost equally bad: to the
> best of my knowledge, no one has really seriously proposed that
> either, since "independent" would imply "own fundraising" and
> presumably untangling the standards model which is now seriously
> intertwined with ISOC.   As long as critical pieces of those
> things remain in ISOC's hands, we aren't "independent" in any of
> the normal senses of that term.
> </rant>
>
>     john
>
>
>
>

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