Re: hampering progress

Michael Thomas <> Wed, 21 April 2021 17:35 UTC

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Subject: Re: hampering progress
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From: Michael Thomas <>
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:35:12 -0700
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On 4/21/21 10:20 AM, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 4/21/21 1:06 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>> Michael, I hav eno idea whether your work was or was not appropriate 
>> for the QUIC working group.
>> Arguing that working group chairs an not declare things out of scope 
>> weakens your overall argument.  Working groups have charters.  The 
>> chairs are expected to work within the charter. Working group email 
>> lists are for discussion of topics relevant to the working group.
>> Now, I will grant that charters are not precise.  Topics are not 
>> precise.  And chairs should (and generally do) err on the side of 
>> allowing some latitude.
>> But claiming that chairs can not rule things as being out of scope 
>> does not match our process, and would hamper our work. (Who has, as 
>> WG co-chair, suggested to more than one author team that the 
>> independent stream would make a better home for their work, as it 
>> does not fit the charter of the working group.) 
> Concur with Joel on the above.
> Also, if you believe that a WG chair is unfairly excluding 
> contributions that are within the WG's charter, that seems like 
> grounds for an appeal, and differences of opinion about such judgments 
> are one of the reasons that we have an appeals process.

My overarching point here is that it was entirely predicable. To get 
shut down unceremoniously after a half dozen messages and less than a 
day... really? That impeded working group progress? As I said before, 
there are no other venues to go to to get answers to basic questions. 
Are working groups so fragile that they can't have any meta conversations?

> In other words, if a dispute can be handled by existing process, 
> trying to let that process work might be the best thing to do. If you 
> try the process and it doesn't work for whatever reason, maybe there's 
> a bigger problem there.

Sorry, I have no interest in "appealing" or chasing other process. The 
point here isn't to "win".