Re: AUTH48 and "Guidance for NIST Staff on Using Inclusive Language in Documentary Standards"

["BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <[e-mail]>]

Other reference points are IEEE and ITU's documents - this Liaison only references a sync specific document - though I recall that both orgs did more general documents:
Liaison statement: LS on information on actions taken by SG15 on inclusive language<https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1835/>


Deborah
________________________________
From: Brian Carpenter <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2025 6:40 AM
To: Q Misell <q=[e-mail]>
Cc: IETF discussion list <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; The IESG <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AUTH48 and "Guidance for NIST Staff on Using Inclusive Language in Documentary Standards"

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Right now, if anyone is stuck, there's a copy at https://ceramics.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/NIST.IR_.8366.pdf<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ceramics.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/NIST.IR_.8366.pdf__;!!BhdT!kpuoru59x73eczv9e6FcCrbBUcCB00Ajkm6LJIpFWfCNEovxCfQgiVlG9o6ZsJvsObxYCQT82UdT3dbMQi67nM4cAA$>

I agree that we need an alternative in a rational jurisdiction.

(via tiny screen & keyboard)
Regards,
        Brian Carpenter

On Wed, 4 Jun 2025, 22:27 Q Misell, <q=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Moin all,

I currently have an RFC in the AUTH48 stage, and as part of this the RFC editor asks me to review my text for possible issues around inclusive and respectful language, or rather lack thereof.
Unfortunately, the accepted reference document to check language against, and to provide guidance on the construction of inclusive text is NIST 8366 "Guidance for NIST Staff on Using Inclusive Language in Documentary Standards". There is nothing wrong with the (former) contents of this document, rather that if one tries to access it nowaday they are presented with a 1 page PDF simply stating that "this paper has been withdrawn to comply with executive order (E.O.) 14151" - in essence, President Trump has such a gripe with DEI that we can no longer write inclusive RFCs.

I recognise this situation is not anyone with the IETF community's fault - its a ludicrous situation to be placed in by the political whims of a wannabe authoritarian. But the problem exists, and we should probably do something about it. As a starting point, I suggest we adopt the joint inclusive language guidance of the ISO and the IEC [1]; as these are both well respected international standards organisations, this maintains the stated goal of adopting NIST 8366 - in that the language used in the IETF is standardised across industry [2].

I am, of course, open to other suggestions about what to do about this situation; and I particularly encourage the IESG to put forward their suggestions to the community.

For now, I will continue editing my RFC based on my understanding of inclusive language, and hope that I do not make any mistakes that a solid reference would've prevented.

Q

[1]: https://iec.ch/system/files/2024-09/iec_doc_topical_inclusive-terminology-guidance_fa_lr.pdf<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://iec.ch/system/files/2024-09/iec_doc_topical_inclusive-terminology-guidance_fa_lr.pdf__;!!BhdT!kpuoru59x73eczv9e6FcCrbBUcCB00Ajkm6LJIpFWfCNEovxCfQgiVlG9o6ZsJvsObxYCQT82UdT3dbMQi6wt662Xg$>
[2]: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/statement-iesg-iesg-statement-on-inclusive-language-20210511/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/statement-iesg-iesg-statement-on-inclusive-language-20210511/__;!!BhdT!kpuoru59x73eczv9e6FcCrbBUcCB00Ajkm6LJIpFWfCNEovxCfQgiVlG9o6ZsJvsObxYCQT82UdT3dbMQi467CbFcw$>
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