Re: Community Input Requested on Trustees' Intent to Renounce "IETF Secretariat" Trademark

Abdussalam Baryun <> Wed, 16 April 2014 03:18 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost ( []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109811A005F; Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:18:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.1
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rKfv5sND8k5i; Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:17:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::231]) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE3D1A0032; Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by with SMTP id z6so10270988yhz.8 for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=RdLaIjpUlmYvBU39jUf92L0cPCy+vOoAGFKzQ7vpTGM=; b=LrPIFblzEBo93sxU4A5QB/tdjmDJTHUa+qsrtbT5xgrP0eKiWzfFQpbXNC4J9Cuu05 8yRJ9IN1p6rDVKZWLQ3AJ1LfPpZeDW4ozHN5DYJTGYTSfFxyxz/igvAJktlffavNxJIJ tnL5OFBMDtGvoLh48dGTmzpFUi6E/45cw0wUBinzQhWcVQwV1s0W8XlH46VSigKW/9VM Umy+uQ07mRyE0m54WfP8VUcnmSeEJ+SMyVahEf3jIpu01/Y2efdgJRtzoUoPuL5kUKdm OQOkv8/u/EQGpbnhwPP1Zd/pzMQafsvO2ScXTR64M8qubw58BtTxbgxVKoLyNijdfoCA I6TQ==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by with SMTP id x60mr8905011yhn.90.1397618273348; Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by with HTTP; Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.01.1404141912380.99918@rabdullah.local>
References: <> <> <> <alpine.OSX.2.01.1404141912380.99918@rabdullah.local>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 04:17:53 +0100
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Community Input Requested on Trustees' Intent to Renounce "IETF Secretariat" Trademark
From: Abdussalam Baryun <>
To: Ole Jacobsen <>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec52c6223b6f14d04f7205c2e
Cc: IAOC IAOC <>, "" <>, "" <>, ietf <>
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 03:18:00 -0000

Hi Ole,

IMHO any registered organisation (even if volunteering) has a market which
has users/customers. If there is a market, then there should be a logo and
if there is a logo then that is a marketing signal, but will always need
marketing (planning and strategies) to make that organisation not die in
future within its markets (specially volunteering organisations don't last
without marketing).

@ Trustees:
My point 4 needs amendment as follows:

4) many companies use IETF documents/meetings and participate/host but are
there integrated projects among those companies by using the IETF
trademark. I think that the IETF general area can establish projects among
those companies to produce some new IETF products. In that situation I
think the secretariats trademark can be helpful within that general area
works/projects. So I hope you define (defined conditions or situations or
markets) when we need or don't need that secretariats trademark, also that
you have a plan when to bring it back registered if your defined conditions

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014, Ole Jacobsen wrote:

> AB,
> Why do you think this has *anything* to do with "marketing" ???
> Trademarks are there to protect brands and owners,

 Yes within its market.

so that somebody
> else cannot cause confusion by using the same name/mark/logo.
> That's all.

I don't think that is only the case. IMO it cost thousands for reasons not
just that. The confusion is related to users and those users may change to
use others. If no one uses IETF then it will close down, which trustees
should make sure not to let that happen.