Re: "The IETF has difficulty solving complex problems" or alternatively Why IMS is a big fat ugly incomprehensiable protocol

Pekka Nikander <pekka.nikander@nomadiclab.com> Thu, 15 September 2005 07:57 UTC

Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EFocz-000157-4w; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 03:57:53 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EFocx-00014v-5F for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 03:57:51 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA25144 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 03:57:48 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from n2.nomadiclab.com ([193.234.219.2]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EFohg-0008O7-T1 for ietf@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 04:02:46 -0400
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by n2.nomadiclab.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E1A212C46; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:57:38 +0300 (EEST)
In-Reply-To: <4A763861-D4E9-44DD-A193-8E73EC4E03A7@muada.com>
References: <20050804050502.GB6084@sbrim-wxp01> <42F89F9F.5070008@zurich.ibm.com> <C5A01F62-A076-46C7-8C67-6568E752A1E7@nomadiclab.com> <4321D5E9.9010609@shockey.us> <151701c5b570$052a25a0$0500a8c0@china.huawei.com> <C0DE65F6343F8BD987425795@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <43249A80.3020303@piuha.net> <4324A849.4060509@cs.columbia.edu> <BB8C050D-B298-4A8A-9325-45B149FC04AD@nomadiclab.com> <4A763861-D4E9-44DD-A193-8E73EC4E03A7@muada.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; delsp="yes"; format="flowed"
Message-Id: <4A09791C-AF36-4C86-923A-D38343C2E037@nomadiclab.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Pekka Nikander <pekka.nikander@nomadiclab.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:57:37 +0200
To: Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@muada.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734)
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc: IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: "The IETF has difficulty solving complex problems" or alternatively Why IMS is a big fat ugly incomprehensiable protocol
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org

>> So, as I state in my little web page, I think we really should  
>> work hard to create a new waist for the architecture.   I, of  
>> course, have my own theory where the new waist should be and how  
>> it should be implemented,
>
> Well, don't be shy: where can we absorb these insights?

Since you ask:

Unfortunately I don't have any concise summary of my "theory", but  
wading through my academic papers (available through my home page)  
should give a fairly good view.  I would focus on the following three  
papers, roughly in this order:

1. Pekka Nikander, Jukka Ylitalo, and Jorma Wall, "Integrating  
Security, Mobility, and Multi-Homing in a HIP Way," in Proceedings of  
Network and Distributed Systems Security Symposium (NDSS'03),  
February 6-7, 2003, San Diego, CA, pp. 87-99, Internet Society,  
February, 2003.

2. Jukka Ylitalo, Pekka Nikander, "A new Name Space for End-Points:  
Implementing secure Mobility and Multi-homing across the two versions  
of IP," in Proceedings of the Fifth European Wireless Conference,  
Mobile and Wireless Systems beyond 3G (EW2004), pp. 435-441,  
Barcelona, Spain, February 24-27, 2004.

3. Pekka Nikander, Jari Arkko, and Börje Ohlman, Host Identity  
Indirection Infrastructure (Hi3)," in Proceedings of The Second  
Swedish National Computer Networking Workshop 2004 (SNCNW2004),  
Karlstad University, Karlstad, Sweden, Nov 23-24, 2004.

Especially the last one is pretty dense; it takes time to understand  
all that we are trying to say there.

All three (and more) are available at
http://www.tml.tkk.fi/~pnr/publications/index.html

If you prefer slideware, see our IETF 62 plenary slides:
http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05mar/plenaryt.html
http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05mar/slides/plenaryt-1.pdf

But, as I wrote, I am trying to take distance from these and trying  
to understand alternative approaches, like "virtualising IP" or  
"domain-based internetworking" that some people are thinking about.   
It is now mostly other people that are continuing the HIP-based work,  
for example, at the CEC funded Ambient Networks project and at the  
IRTF HIP Research Group.

--Pekka Nikander



_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf