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RE: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service

Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> Wed, 18 November 2020 11:10 UTC

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From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm-ietf@htt-consult.com>, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>
CC: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service
Thread-Topic: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 11:10:27 +0000
Message-ID: <50770d2113df4465a59ab6c9445e5b18@cert.org>
References: <27b80ed2-76fb-aee7-f22d-de56019e9aa9@nostrum.com> <a8bdd67a-13ea-4433-aa38-9cfd48ea28da@network-heretics.com> <0e875497-9986-a0d9-8354-3eac26b7f882@nostrum.com> <a02e15f2-34fb-4124-7ba0-c0ee0070b39f@network-heretics.com> <6a29096e-c76e-9bde-388c-bf411b235346@nostrum.com> <6ff3c8a8-57c9-a278-51ce-ce24fd2dfc0e@network-heretics.com> <01RS3W7DNPHA005PTU@mauve.mrochek.com> <27622517-8EC3-44D1-BB21-1F2071BCA2C2@cable.comcast.com> <5dc7b0d1-d565-92c5-293e-093040596f35@network-heretics.com> <4b46fe4f-0b5b-dbf4-9bd5-f0a4a6ee30c9@nostrum.com> <20201117160155.GB2146486@puck.nether.net> <fd4c8fde412341e0b190004874fcbaac@cert.org> <77ab1b2d-072b-1cc5-d5a8-4c451acbd9c7@htt-consult.com>
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Hi Bob!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm-ietf@htt-consult.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 3:45 PM
> To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>
> Cc: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>; ietf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/17/20 11:10 AM, Roman Danyliw wrote:
> > Hi Jared!
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Jared Mauch
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:02 AM
> >> To: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
> >> Cc: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>; ietf@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 09:57:34AM -0600, Adam Roach wrote:
> >>> On 11/17/20 09:45, Keith Moore wrote:
> >>>> Are those web browsers that are deprecating FTP also deprecating
> >>>> HTTP without TLS?
> >>>
> >>> Yes.
> >>>
> >>> https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2015/04/30/deprecating-non-secure-
> >>> ht
> >>> tp/
> >>>
> >>> https://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security/marking-http-as-
> non-
> >> se
> >>> cure
> >> 	There's a difference between preferring https vs http and pulling
> >> http support entirely.  There's many devices that will never get
> >> https, upgrades or certificates.
> > I can see this point in the abstract.  Can you help me in the specific -- what is
> the expected configuration of device accessing IETF resources which is not
> HTTPS capable?
> 
> Old CPE firewalls that proxy the user request and cannot support http? But
> with other services all moving to https, I suspect they are rapidly being
> upgraded.

So to clarify, the thinking is that these devices then are falling back to FTP since they haven't been able to use HTTP in 5 years?  As noted in [1] and [2], the data doesn't seem to support this as FTP usage appears to be coming from fairly robust mature operations (based on IPs).

Regards,
Roman

[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/b8BfvrcpLmvvjkhJ1MW8DUEzmQ8/
[2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/py_9b486x8x2io6d5dAb3FAgNng/

Roman

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