Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 4407 (Sender-ID) to Historic
S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Wed, 20 June 2018 21:33 UTC
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Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:32:41 -0700
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, iesg@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
Subject: Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 4407 (Sender-ID) to Historic
Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
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Hi John, At 09:08 AM 20-06-2018, John C Klensin wrote: >While I agree that adding a note is reasonable and that >providing a reference to current status (as viewed from the >IETF's perspective) is probably more so, I think "defeats the >purpose" is wild hyperbole or worse. There are actually two >goals of this registry. One is simply to avoid inadvertent name >collisions and that certainly is not facilitated by hiding or >dropping names unless we somehow want to encourage their reuse. I did not suggest removing the entry as it might make it difficult for people to look up information about SMTP extensions. >The other is to allow the client maintainers who see a service >extension announcement (or server maintainers who, in violation >of 5321, see a service extension request) to easily look that >purported extension up and see what it is about. Unless the Yes. >IESG has a magic wand that will cause any and all uses of >Sender-ID to disappear the instant that this action is taken, it >is _very_ important that the registry entry remain and that it >point to useful information, both about what Sender-ID is/was >and why the IETF now claims it is Historic and, presumably, is >making a "NOT RECOMMENDED" (see 2026) statement about it. Yes. >At the risk of kicking a dead horse, the above is precisely why >I prefer to see RFCs published to cover cases like this (as >Applicability Statements for present or former standards track >documents) rather than simple tracker notes. I don't actually >care about Sender-ID or friends. The original documents were >Experimental, an explanation has been published about why the >experiment was concluded and these approaches were not viable, >and, if the tracker note is sufficiently clear about why the >action is being taken _and_ registries updated with appropriate >"HISTORIC" and "don't use this" notations and references, I >think this approach is probably ok (although not my first >preference). However, I recommend we use this discussion as >motivation to discourage tracker-style reclassifications to >Historic for standards-track documents when the intent is to >convey a "don't start using this is you are not and, if you are, >please start phasing it out" sort of recommendation. Several years ago, there was a discussion about this experiment. It was not viable to do the reclassification at that time. I don't think that tracker-style reclassification is a good idea. Anyway, you explained it better than I could. >I think that section is irrelevant to this discussion except to >the degree that it explains the reasons for having registry >entries (and keeping them there and keeping them up to date). >If someone thinks that is not explained adequately, please file >an erratum -- I still assume that the time will come in which a >replacement to 5321 will be appropriate and, while I'm keeping >notes and a working version of a revision, relying entirely on >that is probably not wise. I am not inclined to file an erratum on this as it would be ill-thought-out. :-) Regards, S. Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Hector Santos
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Scott Kitterman
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… ned+ietf
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Kurt Andersen
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… John Levine
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Kurt Andersen
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… John R Levine
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… John Levine
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: Moving RFC 4405, RFC 4406, RFC 440… John R Levine