Re: new directions in mlm traffic: integration

Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Sun, 10 January 2021 16:26 UTC

Return-Path: <mike@fresheez.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945163A10F2 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:26:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.013
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.013 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mtcc.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FZoSGWoWcb_g for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:26:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pj1-x1029.google.com (mail-pj1-x1029.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1029]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 533913A10EB for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:26:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pj1-x1029.google.com with SMTP id f14so6301614pju.4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:26:56 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mtcc.com; s=fluffulence; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=PA+bpVttdDgC7KaB+2Ceyg+T8kJGiP6kTJcPh7lYIvk=; b=mfpmxMQq60XH1vGR7LySYmMWH9tZuQ/pZxNsef9elK+TdYEqIX+l16CW4hmFrXhmgi kt7S1pgklPWJ24EOW1RTuu6W2s0KJDz2cAaoQOiCL8oFeXLabpDpMBOhqVm9fLYD7/7Y I+deY+jWQ7IRC1yzCWwOeiY8zEtOSxIb2Y7TizC9sGCjbXus51/YLMzsKDrT65p35cJa e0NhQq+EJn5AYOD7WZn0ZY/j9SmNeyYi+16UQEYFQSJnDZj/dDC4pc3oD1UNqhbTcz5U ZI5zo9abIitZbueXEWJt+3q5sw2zlTctql7uvKwAFiHu6Q2DI5DSP6lUDV1D9Gn5nw0b xQ1Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=PA+bpVttdDgC7KaB+2Ceyg+T8kJGiP6kTJcPh7lYIvk=; b=ggDvuUPqzxi5TQ3zv+NlJadxPKFMmw+jXQf/aaiNj0Ucrid6Ym08ZuIuxFU0eGdKvP mIOekT/nQFVvVEmxok0spoGzXsSW7Ce0GCqu/4Z4tZDLfDvqglm7t3By+T+mBf/yEbzk u/7wr/GtD+xCmM2gkOUi8EN/mPt0aTKNv1Le+t1uy/NoxIXWeDDHOot8ipFDkXnWyBFA D2LdQNC9xurbJzISrV5DrFmRW5Nu3dzKwqkrl4A9BCiSDo3gaYJ2IkY9YHNj1GV2sTCf UYLgHSWBqQ2QSMJ1PWJCQXq6W5uGWk9kobI1PSxq7zJn9eOxChGnpm6EYDW8kQ5n/pqx sPKA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5335LKPDM/vxaA5PFah2oz5KdRa1RMBWE43tNQgew5wQ9sY1jD7S x1wyY169SvNnA+bxEKANejvLi+/ENDYNbg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwEVWvIoy2fDrtMB1OEGT9dcLyFauhgUXBu6Ebr0jVAGSAp/NLZfqf8PEfgA3MMF7Yv6Gepyw==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:c70f:: with SMTP id o15mr13338960pjt.40.1610296015368; Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:26:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mike-mac.lan (107-182-33-192.volcanocom.com. [107.182.33.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x12sm16415037pfj.25.2021.01.10.08.26.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:26:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: new directions in mlm traffic: integration
To: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, ietf@ietf.org
References: <20210110031922.92D4B68A9C94@ary.qy>
From: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <21b92c4a-e470-fb09-cd5e-0c3df81edd3c@mtcc.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:26:53 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20210110031922.92D4B68A9C94@ary.qy>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/fzq-seJQ3M9Ug7qfruuMZXkPnLI>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 16:26:58 -0000

On 1/9/21 7:19 PM, John Levine wrote:
> In article <e2f6e069-3b1e-7f5c-0b1e-955170e6618a@mtcc.com> you write:
>> Forum software has been around for decades at this point though and
>> doesn't have the limitations of being tied to MUA UI. ...
>> If there's any interest, I could write an I-D with it a little bit more
>> baked. Apologies if this has already been discussed.
> It sems ike a reasonable thing to look into but I'd think a more
> productive way to go would be to see what software already exists that
> does this kind of stuff, preferably with credible paid support. We
> already have too much custom bespoke stuff for applications that
> aren't really all that unusual.
>
The right thing to do would be to look at what "integration" actually 
means, as well as what constitutes an agreeable message UI before 
hunting down candidate software. The message UI is likely to be a source 
of friction since there are so many MUA's with their own quirks and 
advocates.

Of course the right answer might just be to hack up gnus because... 
emacs. I'm sure it has embedded webkit by now.

Mike