Re: DMARC methods in mailman --- [LEDE-DEV] DMARC related mass bounces / disabled subscriptions (fwd) Jo-Philipp Wich: [LEDE-DEV] DMARC related mass bounces / disabled subscriptions

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Thu, 15 December 2016 18:44 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C557F129958 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:44:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.797
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sTtFsRCQfptH for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:44:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F6231295E3 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:44:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431DF203B1; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:02:23 -0500 (EST)
Received: from obiwan.sandelman.ca (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3791263768; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 13:44:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: DMARC methods in mailman --- [LEDE-DEV] DMARC related mass bounces / disabled subscriptions (fwd) Jo-Philipp Wich: [LEDE-DEV] DMARC related mass bounces / disabled subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <5EF6F271-1CF7-4981-8E83-C7A7B49DB8F2@gmail.com>
References: <25431.1481725548@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <5EF6F271-1CF7-4981-8E83-C7A7B49DB8F2@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6+dev; GNU Emacs 24.5.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 13:44:28 -0500
Message-ID: <23468.1481827468@obiwan.sandelman.ca>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/g0xHSEZ4BxY0Gvl710_DI3ZCwR4>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 18:44:32 -0000

Yoav Nir <ynir.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
    > So what do you suggest we do?

    > I think something like the following will not have the same problem:

    > IETF discussion list on behalf of Michael Richardson <ietf@ietf.org>

    > But that just saves us from data leakage. It doesn’t get the right
    > value into the address book.

Agreed.

I think that there are two problems that we haven't solved relating to
address books.

1) a standard header which says, "The stuff in the From: address is useless,
   please don't remember". It might also indicate the whole "this mailbox
   is not monitored" business.

2) a standard header which says, "If you want to remember who this was from,
   you should record XYZ"

Of course, From: was supposed to be (2), and we also have Sender:,
and we have the SMTP From which was supposed to be for errors.

(2) might really be a no-op with no legitimate use, and/or it might have
    some significant downside.


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-