Re: The ecosystem is moving

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Sat, 14 May 2016 17:28 UTC

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From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Date: Sat, 14 May 2016 13:27:26 -0400
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Subject: Re: The ecosystem is moving
To: ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com
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Cc: "ietf@ietf.org Discussion" <ietf@ietf.org>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>, Dave Crocker <dcrocker@bbiw.net>
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I suspect that a lot of these problems simply have to do with the fact that
Jabber isn't very mainstream, and so there are a lot of implementations out
there with not enough miles on them to have smoothed out some of the
significant interop problems.

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 1:00 PM, <ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com> wrote:

> > XMPP does not have ongoing problems with interop. Quite the opposite -
> the
> > community is extremely positively engaged with the standards process at
> the
> > XSF, and interoperability issues are detected fast, treated seriously,
> and
> > fixed quickly. If they occur due to specifications being unclear, the
> spec
> > is fixed.
>
> > Every server I'm aware of, with the exception of Google's XMPP S2S
> service
> > (still operating but fundamentally broken) has supported at least the
> > baseline of "XMPP" for years.
>
> Dave, all due respect, but this doesn't match my IETF experience, which
> lines
> up with Martin's and Ted's pretty closely. Every time a meeting rolls
> around I
> have to fight to get jabber chat working.
>
> The BA meeting was better than usual. I fired up Psi, which despite being
> crappy I am forced to use for work because Adium won't talk to the
> corporate
> jabber server for some reason. Finding the two accounts I had set up
> previously
> were both dead, I started the hunt for a functioning public server. (I
> tried a
> private server once, but never succeeded in getting it going.)
>
> After trying various server names from a list that obviously hadn't been
> updated in years, I found one that responded but wouldn't configure
> properly in
> Psi. So I switched to Adium, where it worked.
>
> But the real test is whether or not you can join one of the IETF group
> chats. I
> tried, and it worked. (My past experience has been that this has about a
> 50-50
> shot of working, and when it doesn't work there's absolutely no indication
> of
> what's wrong.)
>
> So after maybe an hour of fiddling I once again had a working setup,
> albeit one
> where I have to have use two different clients to connect to different
> servers.
> As these things go, this counts as s significant success.
>
> Now, I have no doubt that I'm missing some sooper seecret sauce, have bad
> google-fu, should not be using a Mac because reasons, or whatever. But
> that's
> beside the point. As abjectly incompetent as I undoubtedly am with jabber,
> I
> doubt very very much that I rise to the level of incompetence of the
> average
> user setting up IM for the first time.
>
> And perhaps all these problems are not "interoperability issues", by your
> definition of that term. But the bottom line is that the reasons why
> something
> is a PITA don't change the fact that it's a PITA.
>
>                                 Ned
>
>