Re: Do you really not care whether people accept your mail?
Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> Wed, 15 March 2017 15:35 UTC
Return-Path: <nico@cryptonector.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EB101316A5 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:35:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.795
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.796, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cryptonector.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9VM8wqHxjDmP for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from homiemail-a32.g.dreamhost.com (sub4.mail.dreamhost.com [69.163.253.135]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A7E51316A4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from homiemail-a32.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a32.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDAF46001106; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:35:05 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=cryptonector.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:in-reply-to; s=cryptonector.com; bh=FiQ1UfR1OPDJOE EomKf2MS/cm/o=; b=E3pjB3U1F+olGEy/Ry/VrRVLwOBn1lkieuzpoZOaUuan90 00FCzID48bvP388NqAdT6Af4eMBA35jmtPHUzegkn87YCK0N1b4k66KIbmwJJ2G+ c8rhzNkS5m45RRx63lO1bZLvUPQYVje8rtnVhjGk6Fw1BU78zhe97w+F3NDis=
Received: from localhost (cpe-70-123-158-140.austin.res.rr.com [70.123.158.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: nico@cryptonector.com) by homiemail-a32.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7383F6001104; Wed, 15 Mar 2017 08:35:05 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:35:03 -0500
From: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
To: Philip Homburg <pch-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Do you really not care whether people accept your mail?
Message-ID: <20170315153502.GA7490@localhost>
References: <alpine.OSX.2.20.1703132331590.54839@ary.local> <m1cnjqr-0000GkC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <CABa8R6v+ymVRef5_7vCso2xDNAy2XtsAtRP78dbVFcaprFG3iw@mail.gmail.com> <m1co6fG-0000FQC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <m1co6fG-0000FQC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/gWM_7uA9auxXJUvZLKdpiHSKY3E>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:35:08 -0000
On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:00:20PM +0100, Philip Homburg wrote: > >On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:38 AM, Philip Homburg <pch-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com> > >wrote: > >> In my experience, essentially no mail gets lost if you leave out SPF, DKIM, > >> DMARC. The only exception is gmail that occasionally rejects e-mail. > > > >"no mail gets lost" != "gmail occasionally rejects my mail" > > What I meant to write is that when I take all e-mail targets that I send e-mail > to, leaving out gmail, then sending mail without SPF, DKIM, DMARC works just > fine. > > Gmail is an exception because it seems that gmail is broken if you deliver > mail without SPF, etc. over IPv6 to gmail. That's unique to gmail. The problem is twofold: a) gmail has a huge number of mailboxes, so if you can't deliver to them without SPF/DKIM/DMARC, then your mail truly is broken, b) they could be setting the rule, so that even if you don't mind (a), you soon will feel the pain. > So if your outgoing mail doesn't have SPF, etc. and you do have IPv6, then > you have to think about what to do with gmail. As a user, when I send email, I don't want to think about this sort of thing. An admin has to think about this sort of thing, and it's looking a lot like email is nowhere near the relatively easy service to run that it was in the 90s. > In some sense it is amazing how reliable e-mail is. E-mail seems to be > reliable enough that gmail rejecting the occasional e-mail immediately > makes it the most unreliable e-mail provider (for my e-mail). > That's also an amazing success story. Well, I adore email, and email lists. Screw the haters. But it's true that we have a problem, and if we don't manage it then email will be obsolete and I'll be sad. > >Do you imagine that you may be making different choices than others? > > Imagine that some will be making different chocies than me, yes. Balkanizing email doesn't sound very good to me. Nico --
- Do you really not care whether people accept your… John R Levine
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Jared Mauch
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Christopher Morrow
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … John R Levine
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Tim Chown
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … John R Levine
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Tim Chown
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Philip Homburg
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Brandon Long
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Philip Homburg
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Nico Williams
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: Do you really not care whether people accept … Brandon Long