Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language (Section 5.4)
Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org> Mon, 13 February 2017 22:27 UTC
Return-Path: <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35828129997; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 14:27:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Quarantine-ID: <NApbPRhqef7U>
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version"
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NApbPRhqef7U; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 14:27:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from turing.pensive.org (turing.pensive.org [99.111.97.161]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C45BF129439; Mon, 13 Feb 2017 14:27:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [99.111.97.136] (99.111.97.161) by turing.pensive.org with ESMTP (EIMS X 3.3.9); Mon, 13 Feb 2017 14:19:44 -0800
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <p06240609d4c7e2c0acbf@[99.111.97.136]>
In-Reply-To: <CAOW+2du3zqYfS9iu4XjrQ6Rr6B5C50OXk49=u7Wrg0-1TE7QzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOW+2du3zqYfS9iu4XjrQ6Rr6B5C50OXk49=u7Wrg0-1TE7QzA@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Eudora for Mac OS X
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 14:26:28 -0800
To: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>, slim@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org
From: Randall Gellens <rg+ietf@randy.pensive.org>
Subject: Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language (Section 5.4)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28
X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28
X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28
X-Random-Sig-Tag: 1.0b28
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/gpksURbVnrMNTlIhmSDLKkCkl64>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 22:27:32 -0000
At 11:06 AM -0800 2/13/17, Bernard Aboba wrote: > Looking over Section 5.4, it seems to me that the title "Silly > States" may not be appropriate, because it mixes discussion of > combinations of media and language that have an "undefined" meaning > with combinations for which normative guidance can be provided So > rather than having a single "Silly States" section, perhaps we can > have a section on "Undefined States" (for those combinations which > have an undefined meaning) provide normative guidance on defined > combinations elsewhere. > > > <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-slim-negotiating-human-language-06#section-5.4>5.4. > Silly States > > > > It is possible to specify a "silly state" where the language > specified does not make sense for the media type, such as specifying > a signed language for an audio media stream. > An offer MUST NOT be created where the language does not make sense > for the media type. If such an offer is received, the receiver MAY > reject the media, ignore the language specified, or attempt to > interpret the intent (e.g., if American Sign Language is specified > for an audio media stream, this might be interpreted as a desire to > use spoken English). > > A spoken language tag for a video stream in conjunction with an audio > stream with the same language might indicate a request for > supplemental video to see the speaker. > > [BA] Rather than using terms like "might" for combinations that could have a > defined meaning, I would like to see the specification provide normative > language on these use cases. In particular, I would like the > specification to describe: > > a. What it means when a spoken language tag is included for a video stream. > Is this to be interpreted as a request for captioning? > b. What it means when a signed language tag is included for an audio stream. > Is the meaning of this "undefined" and if so, should it be ignored? > c. What it means when a signed language tag is included for a text stream. > > If some of these scenarios are not defined, the specification can say > "this combination does not have a defined meaning" or something like that. I will change the section title to "Undefined Combinations" and replace the text with: Specifying a non-signed language tag for a video media stream, or a signed language tag for a non-video media stream, is not defined. An offer with such a combination SHOULD NOT be created. If such an offer is received, the receiver MAY ignore the language specified. I think this retains the intent of the old section while avoiding wading into the unclear issue of intent of such combinations. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly selected tag: --------------- I suppose when it gets to that point, we shan't know how it does it. --Alan Turing
- Re: IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-negotiatin… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- RE: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Doug Ewell
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- RE: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Phillips, Addison
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- RE: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Phillips, Addison
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [Slim] IETF last call for draft-ietf-slim-neg… Randall Gellens