Re: Change in IPR policies
John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> Tue, 09 June 2020 21:18 UTC
Return-Path: <jgs@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254783A094E for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=J0N0zdOS; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=hFR0D86h
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZNmS72YdJbYE for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2310D3A0946 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108159.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 059LHf4v007168; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 14:18:40 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=nSLW3ixwBfleWqGnGEHiBjKWSNyRlagz1q3H/D+Ja4I=; b=J0N0zdOSheLf/1tOtHJfzv0dkcfyS9XbutftBSWnZcBXU4qVLyFtUQcgTWOmRDip6Mzx GFk/RIPJ6u0CP3gDwcuct/ckOsxEuR4tXwnnYk3wNqs8YuSyL8cUIqaqyShrGY6bZ/C2 +vG8OEll35xfxLdnPdc+jae2vZLIjzArLUPz5/jH74UHNpn9J2pVLDEU7/HcoYnGLeFC nCau8aPfUpOYmN2Wlv3yRFEj9KWCgGT/ocYA1jbsGuODokFUvBOWxroeWKYrjssrnJ16 GDGbtCg7rUd13MiL8KRkD3eAA2PGC0+SWge+d1Y62x6SMtrhGB9QaabafPtOtkw9nqx2 BA==
Received: from nam10-bn7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn7nam10lp2106.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.70.106]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 31g93xdp0q-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 09 Jun 2020 14:18:40 -0700
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=TwmakzfmbnyERTKw7uBZMl+cnMRr4eakOBARWFiWmG0Wg28JZ+51KMaLKeKg5vkizuVWoP5ppA3PqxX3VLNiRaDZCUdpD99f5/oCZ8j2UKV9uKI7WcekNw4BD+TFfrcD6HsxuwiOkYOQ5pS6ArDQYRaeWosZf7Y9TeYFqY7wMYYR73DFETyfsr4csPuUZHvBaCpoZPxCqjSPOERzmGNEA+IyZ9iHDqwXV+YeEDYcZTzCvhrVYRNNhGGe2YcZ3LwBHhUjMSFDod5eDEYUw9u7DAFOCZT0BsBhk/9WFI99KBru+ovRlauSlCx11YIuNQI/VRKb6Q7G4yMmF0na6h4vuw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=nSLW3ixwBfleWqGnGEHiBjKWSNyRlagz1q3H/D+Ja4I=; b=eWghp2SUvF/uYkRZYNOeYkVFfI1z4070zAmMgLbRhZzmYL7k/OdLaRCpiDqXtIkA6YSv/Pxw200CS7AhV+MierMgAX6MInGFR44WEKNxUbqLLlJ+YF2sRyBEo/4JgNeB5AUtlz1Y0zADvRnEFf4NzITQqHLvNOq//7hprxPQilYcCio9E/Fy8VVCldOL/BYGYzwKkSTSZ0PlVkm+sMr31A3aVxYNnmNtdKU+QrUW+NudGvgRP3Du8AhgE9eiheJLzME9Wo3cXZSdjj8u9+DIl+kyNf1/o9Co4iJdX9Dh4OUI0IcRQHAimsD8grTKuSYxLYnTYgM2ubb2DZbZZ9b04g==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=juniper.net; dkim=pass header.d=juniper.net; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=nSLW3ixwBfleWqGnGEHiBjKWSNyRlagz1q3H/D+Ja4I=; b=hFR0D86hZM0C5QzwVvY3EhYW+sDLbUyxL8eHl3lAsmz0u0cVr+H6kZuaIMDV1XKYvJ56PlRVjfmaH7TRUuf4wvLzCSOLQxTg2xkMzgZDoHj21ciu9MhHBKBZ3WKVfLqsEL1aufOxP0i8fbRZ9rxz/9a+CqMUJvU4XrjPYwmIeIc=
Received: from BL0PR05MB5076.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:83::12) by BL0PR05MB4657.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:2b::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3088.13; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 21:18:38 +0000
Received: from BL0PR05MB5076.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499e:c613:2d2:b09f]) by BL0PR05MB5076.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::499e:c613:2d2:b09f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3088.017; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 21:18:38 +0000
From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
CC: "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Change in IPR policies
Thread-Topic: Change in IPR policies
Thread-Index: AQHWPpdDht6jaKCV+0iEBsuMFpatF6jQv84AgAAFUQCAAATGgA==
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 21:18:37 +0000
Message-ID: <17DBFD2F-A387-42E2-B99B-A450FA2562D4@juniper.net>
References: <96A3BDFE6F7DC38D2366581F@PSB> <45F719DA-115A-40C7-B96F-7F2D06E33199@ietf.org> <bba69d55-e36a-deb3-5c4c-26386d2b55d0@cs.tcd.ie>
In-Reply-To: <bba69d55-e36a-deb3-5c4c-26386d2b55d0@cs.tcd.ie>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2)
authentication-results: cs.tcd.ie; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cs.tcd.ie; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net;
x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.14]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4ac525b3-0804-4f0c-1274-08d80cbaad1c
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR05MB4657:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BL0PR05MB4657AB146C96D08F9E3ACB6CAA820@BL0PR05MB4657.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:2733;
x-forefront-prvs: 042957ACD7
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: cbOswKJgKBpmhqZnOr0saLSfnO+9oCO/tE1v8xuom2lKy225X2Jmg4Cc/4pjm6l7VYxcb3WinSf9vcIRQ05Dnz1tHQvjAGgYAT1onYEu3sYWYaUFvK6rIxW554nE3QJNs1OsC5JtIznfgnl9Qla8RVZmXQwzX98Ld3I2nzUeObgVKdxFrfu+IAEOf23hY5mnA49XBWqWz3YSj660iOGh72yFN/FtTE/KBlUFVuydaCsMKTYurZRWf0cw6Xa++RhUpWI/ySecKL0LjfFJhCDenMWEunI3OvRzDFAUelwTovSBIclpoWjBM7jbmJ/9gzz1
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BL0PR05MB5076.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(4636009)(376002)(346002)(136003)(366004)(396003)(39860400002)(6512007)(26005)(2616005)(6486002)(86362001)(6506007)(478600001)(5660300002)(53546011)(8936002)(66574014)(8676002)(6916009)(316002)(66476007)(76116006)(66946007)(3480700007)(33656002)(36756003)(4326008)(186003)(71200400001)(2906002)(64756008)(66556008)(296002)(66446008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: jbMa8hc5CkOe3+fgL4VEzv1puxU0dP2Xgb1tIBw63RaqMhd26R08WTY7FA1Haj7kfo8ismQiChAuyWYhnzLtOb2CdW97Fo9mhp493H7TCCR47zWDqVl+9pSxqHjaHIM0Z6lq/5QLCn/fCI2QUyw5tJ1j/lVXwiHpgb33xdwFCLwSF1lAy5OsBy8dAF28TS/pXfanT7Wr/mVX6FmpQm+o1Ii/O0scCrqrmwUy/p5AR5QvICBO46eLhDvGkqd4iDcx0lh53xsEiQ0Iv6oA+7dtIBwJnD3ThZ+eAAMVaBj5GBqpuS056/Av2Zz2DlTwIe1yY+81EnSIMbOp7vZcdxtZKdK+3aNY5/uwfE16xPVVVFRLyskXjPgUEpZAj/8jsqvUc2VJrmJXa49BnomUNAa7viicqCkgCL5ZDlsEF7l/MeB3f95BhVQC53onln3+Q2mvA/+DGWSRMGhw2zJQva2OA2J5ZpNoQOew2Cy8TH5iWoM=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <81BEC4B333212F4FA52F81CC16FC1E86@namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4ac525b3-0804-4f0c-1274-08d80cbaad1c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jun 2020 21:18:37.9141 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: gmf6dLx+1dY0a64Lfg/8cFkWwcs3kb3sY+8uRsPCMUtRo9U81CXKeNFSYFVj1cqD
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR05MB4657
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.216, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-06-09_14:2020-06-09, 2020-06-09 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 cotscore=-2147483648 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxlogscore=675 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2006090163
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/h537H14EzxrzmBshBkLPcZo1TyA>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 21:18:52 -0000
> On Jun 9, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: ... > This is all getting a bit objectionable. If charging for > remote attendees for IETF108 is not precedent setting, I > see no need to start to build a defensive infrastructure > (neither legal nor systems) around that emergency one-off > decision. Especially not one that's entirely at odds with > the IETF's tradition and goal of openness. I’m inclined to agree. Maybe I’m a Pollyanna, but ISTM the honor system should be sufficient. After all, that’s what we use for the in-person meetings and our world hasn’t collapsed. (No, really, for practical purposes it is. When was the last time you challenged someone for walking into a meeting unbadged? I think the one time we ever had people checking badges was in Beijing, and that was for other reasons.) Unless lack of registration revenue from 108 is an existential threat to the IETF — and I don’t think it is — it seems a worthy experiment to stick with radical openness. If I’m proven to be a naïve fool and experience shows we are overwhelmed by freeloaders, we can recalibrate for 109. But if experience shows people mostly don’t suck and we didn’t need the walls and moat, that’s a win. Or is this about something other than revenue, and if so, what? —John
- Change in IPR policies John C Klensin
- Re: Change in IPR policies Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Change in IPR policies Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Change in IPR policies Carsten Bormann
- Re: Change in IPR policies Russ Housley
- Re: Change in IPR policies Jay Daley
- RE: Change in IPR policies Adrian Farrel
- Re: Change in IPR policies John C Klensin
- Re: Change in IPR policies Jay Daley
- Re: Change in IPR policies Stephen Farrell
- Re: Change in IPR policies John C Klensin
- Re: Change in IPR policies John Scudder
- Re: Change in IPR policies John C Klensin
- RE: Change in IPR policies Adrian Farrel
- Re: Change in IPR policies Michael Richardson
- Re: Change in IPR policies Michael Richardson
- Re: Change in IPR policies Jay Daley
- Re: Change in IPR policies Paul Wouters
- Re: [Trustees] Change in IPR policies Brad Biddle
- Re: Change in IPR policies Michael Richardson
- Re: Change in IPR policies Stephen Farrell
- Re: Change in IPR policies John Scudder
- Re: Change in IPR policies Paul Wouters
- Re: Change in IPR policies Jay Daley
- Re: Change in IPR policies Lou Berger
- Re: Change in IPR policies Jeff Tantsura
- Re: [Trustees] Change in IPR policies John C Klensin
- Re: [Trustees] Change in IPR policies Jay Daley
- Re: Change in IPR policies S Moonesamy
- Re: Change in IPR policies John Scudder
- Re: Change in IPR policies Alexa Morris
- Re: Change in IPR policies Donald Eastlake
- Re: Change in IPR policies Robert Raszuk
- Re: Change in IPR policies John C Klensin