Re: United Nations report on Internet standards

"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Mon, 16 March 2020 15:51 UTC

Return-Path: <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D543A0B94 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2020 08:51:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wv1XJDcbzIL8 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Mar 2020 08:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A8CC3A0C56 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Mar 2020 08:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48h1402Ns6z6GFWJ; Mon, 16 Mar 2020 08:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1584373856; bh=ctYicg+hHeIeRWJBSh/WpuNKrP6T8vJgZdrl/dKrWGk=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Be30fgyvWi5AX1So/Zzsu4ut8isY21JsPfb+Vvrhw960rDUNLHr8FVRyYQfq7TLnl FUQnlbSFUduE1l44cDB6bG9ogsgUZfvXlbfEP7drMpLjuacOYBGxainGt+61JZohAL LAAYzfUgjFDOLIQf8AJ4IkeUMRlRFfCeeF4Z5KbM=
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at a2.tigertech.net
Received: from [192.168.128.43] (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48h13z5f1Rz6G879; Mon, 16 Mar 2020 08:50:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: United Nations report on Internet standards
To: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola=40open-xchange.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <255650568.54634.1584372553034@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Message-ID: <e7aca887-a24b-a80a-806c-c7f221b2fa7a@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 11:50:53 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <255650568.54634.1584372553034@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/hRoXthVkOYsVG-tyy9WIKPHT3lw>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2020 15:51:06 -0000

the seciton you point to lists a number of items.  Some of them are 
understandable.  Some of them are potentially valuable, depending upon 
what subtext is intended.  Some of them ignore the fact that there are 
good legal reasons for not doing some things.  (e.g. discussing business 
cases can be quite challenging; translation introduces a host of 
complexities, particularly for standards where the specific wording was 
contentious.)

the bigger issue is that there does not seem to be any relationship 
between the list of items and the conclusion (which you quote below). 
Without grounding on purpose and clarity on meaning of that conclusion, 
it simply does not follow from the preceding text.

Yours,
Joel

On 3/16/2020 11:29 AM, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am not sure of which IETF list is appropriate for this. It concerns 
> relationships with non-technical stakeholders and their representation 
> in the standards-making process, a matter that has been popping up here 
> and there in several places (for example, in the discussion of 
> draft-iab-for-the-users, or in HRPC).
> 
> The Internet Governance Forum of the United Nations commissioned a study 
> to understand the reasons for the lack of adoption of Internet standards 
> that are fundamental for security, mentioning DNSSEC and RPKI among 
> others. I was not involved in the study, but the report came out a few 
> days ago:
> 
> https://www.intgovforum.org/multilingual/index.php?q=filedepot_download/9615/2023 
> 
> 
> It formulates (section 8.1) six recommendations, of which the sixth is 
> specifically aimed at the IETFand other Internet standards organizations:
> 
> "Standardisation processes are advised to include a consultation phase 
> with government and industry policy makers, and civil society experts."
> 
> There is also a page (section 7.13) discussing "Communication from/to 
> the IETF", and how to make it better.
> 
> As I am active both here and at the IGF, I would be interested in 
> comments and reactions. I have been asked to organize a session on this 
> at the next EuroDIG, the European preparatory conference for the global 
> IGF, and it would be good to have people from the IETF in it. So feel 
> free to send me your opinions.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange
> vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com  <mailto:vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>  
> Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy
>