PKIgate
Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> Mon, 01 March 2010 21:42 UTC
Return-Path: <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
X-Original-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4094328C5B7 for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:42:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 2.645
X-Spam-Level: **
X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.645 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.735, BAYES_05=-1.11, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MANGLED_MONEY=2.3, SARE_MONEYTERMS=0.681, SARE_OBFUMONEY2=1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n7Q7Du-wlC6d for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:42:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp (necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp [131.112.32.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 43A2928C579 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Mar 2010 13:42:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 75630 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2010 22:47:23 -0000
Received: from softbank219001188004.bbtec.net (HELO necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp) (219.1.188.4) by necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp with SMTP; 1 Mar 2010 22:47:23 -0000
Message-ID: <4B8C34C5.4080807@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 06:42:29 +0900
From: Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ja-JP; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
X-Accept-Language: ja, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
Subject: PKIgate
References: <874c02a21002231826y613b9f97ya83740ba240f7bf9@mail.gmail.com> <4B85B7E5.1000104@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <201002242347.o1ONlt7L023898@drugs.dv.isc.org> <4B85BF52.7030004@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <c331d99a1002241619y47f91f50g4433a7233350dc74@mail.gmail.com> <4B85DBCA.2060407@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <4B862D03.7060602@gnutls.org> <4B863571.40604@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <a123a5d61002250614h36c51a42xebb54c3cc340829d@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LFD.1.10.1002251151010.1697@newtla.xelerance.com> <a123a5d61002251201k10b5305ai3aa226fc6b84a793@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <a123a5d61002251201k10b5305ai3aa226fc6b84a793@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:42:56 -0000
Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > You can design a PKI to meet many different needs. No, PKI can be designed for imaginary needs only with no real security. > Identity is one purpose, but not a very useful one. It is an example of imaginary security. > If you want security from a > PKI you will do better with a validation system that provides > accountability. Real accountability needs a real account with real *M*O*N*E*Y* in it. If you loss $1M by a wrong operation of a CA, the CA should be able to compensated the amount of the loss, which is the accountability. *M*O*N*E*Y* is the reality. Then, what if, a wrong operation of a CA causes $1000 loss for 1M people? Bankruptcy of the CA does not help the people. A CA charging $2000 for 1M certificates may have $1000000000 in its account and may be able to compensate $1000 loss of 1M people. But, what the point of people paying $2000, only to receive $1000 compensation? It's better for the people not to pay anything to the CA. What if, if the loss is $1M loss for 1M people? The only thing serious CAs can do is to make the possibility of wrong operation absolute ZERO, which is not human and costs infinite amount of money, which makes the CAs not profitable. On the other hand, less serious CAs do little, if not nothing, and just sell imaginary security at low cost to people who really need real security. That's how PKI is designed and CAs work. PKI is a system of fraud. Masataka Ohta
- OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCurve t… Joe Baptista
- RE: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Joe Baptista
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… tytso
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Dave CROCKER
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Martin Rex
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Wes Hardaker
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Tony Finch
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Paul Wouters
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Paul Hoffman
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Paul Hoffman
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Steven M. Bellovin
- DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS today a… Shane Kerr
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Tony Finch
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… David Conrad
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Tony Finch
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Paul Wouters
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Paul Hoffman
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Tony Finch
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Paul Hoffman
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Masataka Ohta
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Mark Andrews
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Masataka Ohta
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Masataka Ohta
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Joe Baptista
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Basil Dolmatov
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Masataka Ohta
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Tony Finch
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! Florian Weimer
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Martin Rex
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Paul Wouters
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Paul Wouters
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… David Conrad
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Paul Wouters
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Tony Finch
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… Paul Wouters
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Paul Wouters
- Re: OpenDNS today announced it has adopted DNSCur… David Conrad
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Joe Abley
- RE: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Hollenbeck, Scott
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Shumon Huque
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Masataka Ohta
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! Masataka Ohta
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! Florian Weimer
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! Masataka Ohta
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Masataka Ohta
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Joe Baptista
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… David Conrad
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Tony Finch
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Paul Wouters
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Masataka Ohta
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Wassim Haddad
- PKIgate Masataka Ohta
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Masataka Ohta
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Shumon Huque
- Re: DNSCurve vs. DNSSEC - FIGHT! (was OpenDNS tod… Masataka Ohta