Re: IETF WG meetings and remote participation

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Sat, 15 February 2020 22:59 UTC

Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36631200FE for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:59:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MpL1KF37nkXO for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:59:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF0112007A for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:59:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44EC14B6; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 17:59:53 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 15 Feb 2020 17:59:53 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=dN+6zy5IN8jrgJeTYpfM0oM1Iz67AZlniJid9utxN DQ=; b=UTvtU0E8CQKIeBBBS9r8xQiCk27QXizAyLXpD2iyQl+iZiUo6qlwGOH5i Dlgfcm2qIghcrGg0LkEBFJiUbzhSBYLu5K1O4YdN/GEp6v9h+qWqnKcXVKs37QnB pDShLZw756H3zgsGZRS9m+Ve/qhuAFxQHDuek8GyiVSl9INg5EU5vE7Z2zId+lEr WsLsnImV6MOhZG+6CT8jt+LHRNnL4KoncJDM7AdRfGTYAGh3yeecyiPugk4nMNlX Xsy+szd/XBu7MhblC68V23UusyvI3hxVIBvPsfYoOGu15HHRac078uWLYlr2FwDz nP6qYpgzUVkCaBuw6IZZZCg8b6RAQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:6HdIXlb4Bpii-X3-ajoxtMj_D7sCumRF2ynGt1SlShIzwWZDYPHVmg>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrjeefgddthecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtgfgsehtkeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpefmvghithhh ucfoohhorhgvuceomhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhmqe enucfkphepuddtkedrvddvuddrudektddrudehnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptden ucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifohhrkhdqhhgvrhgvth hitghsrdgtohhm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:6HdIXgr2gSLr0858V-PNiNYyUxiYq8kasGrdpg1oJlnGhNy7K3fG2w> <xmx:6HdIXi-rRbOfgS4sZFX-zyo4ujShnlNhq5JRGOsMPCObdido0QS0Pg> <xmx:6HdIXn8myYwCtvdWUq-fdFRoHAN5tBDZAAgHc9YLFX8d_LorKJjFlw> <xmx:6HdIXvctZ2lrxqk0_4d6--hQlWII1vqUNybSHbz8Om6WOWgsK7EQEQ>
Received: from [192.168.1.97] (108-221-180-15.lightspeed.knvltn.sbcglobal.net [108.221.180.15]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C253E3280059; Sat, 15 Feb 2020 17:59:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: IETF WG meetings and remote participation
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Cc: IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <CAOj+MMEMY1gxtj70+5wPOG+XHsk_nX8af4kbXD30_ULDmHMyQg@mail.gmail.com> <666CACAD-F8D4-43A1-8336-3CC9BBCC4B08@puck.nether.net> <5CBB6602066BF4A674D4D092@PSB> <CAOj+MMH_mA0+0maq+oYJZ=_GcGk5BVU9N4v0mG7hs+_f7WUiqw@mail.gmail.com> <d7196dbe-80fd-cea0-be27-e9b4aade22f9@network-heretics.com> <CAOj+MMFjhxOCOrUqzL=pbuRmPFa4-w==7=3rufR+-JX7dq+vPw@mail.gmail.com> <f68a8e6f-1bb6-2edb-86f1-d5f2f867120d@joelhalpern.com>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Message-ID: <8f4049e1-7b34-b037-485d-0f8623c6e7f8@network-heretics.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 17:59:51 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <f68a8e6f-1bb6-2edb-86f1-d5f2f867120d@joelhalpern.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/jAR2KpCdzLdqosnhxN0cI_yU5lU>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 22:59:57 -0000

On 2/15/20 4:52 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:

> Actually, all the slides can be (and should be) posted in the meeting 
> materials section before the meeeting.  For the sessions I co-chair, 
> we make sure to get the material posted before the meeting starts. 
> Preferably enough before that people can look at them.
>
> Having said that, I have to disagree with the claim that there is no 
> need to present the material.  Reading slides is NOT the same as 
> getting a decent presentation.  And more importantly, the slides help 
> shape the discussion.  the remind people of context. They frame the 
> quesitons that need to be discussed.

I will agree to an extent.   I have occasionally seen brief 
presentations and slides that helped to frame discussion.   Mostly what 
I object to is devoting the lion's share of the time allotted to an 
author to be used for presentation, leaving only minimal time for 
discussion at the end.   That, IMO, is not usually an effective use of 
face-to-face time.  Also, slides put meeting attendees into passive 
mode, when what is needed is active discussion.   So sure, a few slides 
can be helpful, but it's easy to go overboard.

More broadly, while slides _can_ be used (sparingly) to frame discussion 
at a meeting, IMO they're actually more useful to summarize the document 
and discussion topics _before_ the meeting and/or to help participants 
"catch up" even after the meeting is held.

Keith