Re: Quality of Directorate reviews

Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Wed, 06 November 2019 11:48 UTC

Return-Path: <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB47120870 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:48:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0V0T1B3wn6RY for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:48:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from waldorf.isode.com (waldorf.isode.com [62.232.206.188]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8C9120869 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 03:48:03 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1573040882; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=qEbxt2JK4y36epnuoqZLEuTq9hL7IQA3T7G1udSXR7c=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=wgiZ7DicG1TWgTUor/YOk7sywBjePvCIJiUOMnwKWeFQIfR9RQWXOnXpa9C2I1iewDaXPI BwgSYtXubmfazIq88xZy2hO1qrWCWDHpKRoz+WBW+xlIRf1tKdu6+luZ9AZKyVHDbUEUi5 olMRvM4c80exCV4V9Vth2AJ9yIn/XP4=;
Received: from [172.20.1.215] (dhcp-215.isode.net [172.20.1.215]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id <XcKy8gBbdyA1@waldorf.isode.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:48:02 +0000
Subject: Re: Quality of Directorate reviews
To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>, Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <157279399807.13506.13363770981495597049.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <0EF64763-BA25-468A-B387-91445A61D318@gmail.com> <CAJU8_nUovmFmgNiYx0ez_1f+GPdU9xGViDYWfowEEomrn0pyDw@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LRH.2.21.1911040841160.27600@bofh.nohats.ca> <CE06CC6D-E37F-4C90-B782-D14B1D715D4B@cable.comcast.com> <38E47448-63B4-4A5D-8A9D-3AB890EBDDDD@akamai.com> <09886edb-4302-b309-9eaa-f016c4487128@gmail.com> <26819.1572990657@localhost> <2668fa45-7667-51a6-7cb6-4b704c7fba5a@isode.com> <2C97D18E-3DA0-4A2D-8179-6D86EB835783@gmail.com> <MN2PR11MB43669E4CEF13CDA51A764F9AB5790@MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
Message-ID: <ccd393fd-4c59-ae29-5e51-a53d28a73fa6@isode.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2019 11:46:44 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR11MB43669E4CEF13CDA51A764F9AB5790@MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-GB
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/jAhC2zb_SFhZWJQZya4vb_0U_ZA>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 11:48:05 -0000

On 06/11/2019 11:42, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:

> Perhaps RFCs could list (within the document) who reviewed/approved them, and in which role/capacity the review had been performed.
>
> This could serve two purposes:
>   - some minimal reward for those individuals taking the time to review the document,
>   - encouragement for the reviewers to ensure that an adequate review has been performed based on the role/capacity in which they are acting.
I think acknowledging people is generally a good idea. I would be in 
favour of always acknowledging directorate reviews, shepherds and 
possibly ADs in documents.
> Rob
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org>; On Behalf Of Ralph Droms
>> Sent: 06 November 2019 11:03
>> To: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>;
>> Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>;; ietf <ietf@ietf.org>;
>> Subject: Re: Quality of Directorate reviews
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2019, at 5:34 AM, Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>;
>> wrote:
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> On 05/11/2019 21:50, Michael Richardson wrote:
>>>> Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>; wrote:
>>>>> If we want the IESG job to be more reasonably sized, we have to take
>>>>> work away from the ADs. As far as I can see, that means taking away
>>>>> their duty of acting as final reviewers. I don't want to name names
>>>>> because I don't think the ADs are to be blamed individually, but
>>>>> some of them spend *enormous* effort on detailed reviews.
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> I think that there is a lack of trust by ADs of the various
>> directorates.
>>> Other ADs have commented on this, but I think I need to repeat what
>>> they said and expand on it.
>>>
>>> Results are vary varied. Some are quite good (e.g. Gen-Art) and others
>>> really depend on reviewer. ADs responsible for Directorates are faces
>>> with the choice of firing half of their Directorates (which has some
>>> rather unfortunate consequences) and/or raise the bar on who should be
>>> allowed to join. We already struggle to recruit people at all levels
>>> of our organization.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Alexey
>> We shouldn't be depending on last-minute quality checks to maintain the
>> quality of our output.  Working groups should be producing documents that
>> are ready to publish, and develop trust that their documents are high
>> quality.
>>
>> - Ralph
>>