BCP97bis and "freely available"
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Mon, 18 October 2021 13:33 UTC
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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 09:33:38 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
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Subject: BCP97bis and "freely available"
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Hi. In looking through the new -01 draft (even though this text has not changed) I noticed something that I sort of hinted at yesterday in responding to other comments. You need to define "freely available" and do so precisely. We have historically considered printed books and articles in established journals to be suitable for normative references from the RFC Series ("down" really has nothing to do with that criterion) even if buying the book or obtaining the journal was expensive. In theory, there was always a trip to the library. Some of the standards from other SDOs have the same property: they are often very expensive unless one's organization is a member that gets them for free, but many libraries and other repositories do have them available. Of course, some of us have access to better technical libraries than others. That is an economic and cultural problem I don't know how to fix, but I'm fairly sure that pushing in the direction of "must be available online, with no restrictions and no cost" would be quite self-destructive for the IETF. "Freely available" does not necessarily imply "free" (zero cost). By contrast, one can imagine a reference to a restricted corporate document, some types of prepublication drafts, and, if the world continues to fragment, even the detailed description of how some equipment operates. In those cases, the document may just not be "available" to many IETF participants even though, if someone were allowed to access it, it would be at no cost. So the I-D should be very clear about what it is talking about. Then, if needed, we can have a better discussion about the requirements. best, john
- BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Russ Housley
- Re: BCP97bis Scott Bradner
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis David Farmer
- Re: BCP97bis Brian Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Scott Bradner
- Re: BCP97bis Russ Housley
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis and Informational-as-Standard Michael Richardson
- RE: BCP97bis Larry Masinter
- Re: BCP97bis Joel M. Halpern
- Re: BCP97bis Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis Brian E Carpenter
- RE: BCP97bis Larry Masinter
- Re: BCP97bis John Levine
- Re: BCP97bis Scott Bradner
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis Russ Housley
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis tom petch
- RE: BCP97bis mohamed.boucadair
- RE: BCP97bis ned+ietf
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- BCP97bis and "freely available" John C Klensin
- RE: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- RE: BCP97bis mohamed.boucadair
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem tom petch
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Warren Kumari
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Lars Eggert
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Warren Kumari
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Scott O. Bradner
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" John C Klensin
- BCP written by another AD [was Re: BCP97bis] Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Sandy Wills
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Michael StJohns
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" George Michaelson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Randy Presuhn
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" George Michaelson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Michael Richardson
- RE: BCP97bis ned+ietf
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" tom petch
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem tom petch
- Re: BCP written by another AD [was Re: BCP97bis] Erik Kline
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy