Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Standardization
Dave CROCKER <dhc2@dcrocker.net> Thu, 11 November 2010 06:47 UTC
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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 14:47:40 +0800
From: Dave CROCKER <dhc2@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
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To: IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Standardization
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Folks, On 11/11/2010 12:25 PM, Dave CROCKER wrote: > To establish the base: It is not possible to achieve widespread use on the > Internet without having multiple components interacting. That's called > interoperability. > > However, the interoperability might be among components that are clones of a > single code base. > > So our language needs to be enhanced to cover multiple implementations. And as > long as the language hood is up, we might as well put in a turbo-booster that > asserts the higher octane 'interoperability' word. A hallway conversation with Russ added an item that simply had not occurred to me: There might be multiple implementations that rely on on undocumented modifications of the spec. This means that an additional, interoperable implementation cannot be made purely from the specification. Again, I believe the requirement for the document is "merely" to get the wording right. I do not believe any of us differ on the actual meaning we are trying to achieve. That is, I have not seen anything that indicates we have disparity about the intended requirement. Test language: (*) (Full) Internet Standard: The Internet community achieves rough consensus -- on using the multiple, independent implementations of a specification and 3.3. [Full] Internet Standard (IS) This is the existing final standards status, based on attainment of significant community acceptance, as demonstrated by use of multiple, independent implementations that conform to the specification. d/ ps. I just realized that the original language that Russ cited said "on using the running code of a specification". "Of a specification" explicitly means that the stuff that is running is the spec and, therefore, can't really mean that it's using hallway agreements. (However I think it's dandy to make the Section 3.3 language bullet-proofed against creative misunderstanding.) (*) This is just from me; it hasn't been vetted with my co-authors. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
- Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Standardi… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Mark Andrews
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Russ Housley
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Russ Housley
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Russ Housley
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Martin Rex
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Martin Rex
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… ned+ietf
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Alternative Proposal for Two-Stage IETF Stand… Eric Burger