Re: Status of this memo [WG consensus]

Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> Wed, 28 April 2021 01:24 UTC

Return-Path: <tytso@mit.edu>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A2263A0C3E for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 27 Apr 2021 18:24:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.498
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.4, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SuzoKRzgm67F for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 27 Apr 2021 18:24:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 048933A0C3D for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 27 Apr 2021 18:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from cwcc.thunk.org (pool-72-74-133-215.bstnma.fios.verizon.net [72.74.133.215]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 13S1OC6e011215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 27 Apr 2021 21:24:13 -0400
Received: by cwcc.thunk.org (Postfix, from userid 15806) id A9DE615C3C3D; Tue, 27 Apr 2021 21:24:12 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 21:24:12 -0400
From: Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: "Andrew G. Malis" <agmalis@gmail.com>, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@nokia.com>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Status of this memo [WG consensus]
Message-ID: <YIi5PFlRBG0eHvkR@mit.edu>
References: <376f83f0-89a3-cd0e-1792-c8434bd8a5d2@gmail.com> <9ACE59FA-30B6-475A-AF6B-4B874E4A2788@eggert.org> <1804294246.5904.1619512137931@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> <D653D3B2-7666-409A-B856-2A4B1BA958CA@eggert.org> <3DBB64B1-40B8-4BC3-B66C-7F9B7F395874@akamai.com> <b5210c71-9500-3dba-05d2-4ae1c6ad16e9@network-heretics.com> <CAA=duU1VJs2vCE=uCF=fXO7FNedn9yPAaZWTgcaAiHTexA8uWA@mail.gmail.com> <2c48c55c-fd37-6ced-e025-707eb145a27b@nokia.com> <CAA=duU1zuZ0ae_fK9vQkkRxFffgitLpATxwNcpfeftepBpY4=w@mail.gmail.com> <363d636a-38cf-d62c-202a-f92cc4153dc1@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <363d636a-38cf-d62c-202a-f92cc4153dc1@gmail.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/k88lUs09h0Qvl4_ibzvLOg-aaKw>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 01:24:17 -0000

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 11:16:14AM +1200, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> 
> Actually, no. It only reflects consensus to work on the topic with
> draft in question as a basis. It does not imply that the WG will
> reach rough consensus on the draft. It is not uncommon for adopted
> drafts to fade away, fail to reach WG Last Call, or fail to reach WG
> consensus after WG Last Call. As Martin says downthread, it's only
> when the draft is sent off to the AD that we can be sure that the WG
> chairs have called consensus.

It should also be noted that not all I-D's are proto-RFC's.  There are
cases, in more complex protocols, where an wg I-D might contain some
secondary text that might explore potential (non-normative) use cases,
or possible alternate approaches (which if adopted might replace
several sections or subsections of the primary I-D), etc.  In those
cases, the I-D introduction would explain what the purpose of that I-D
might be, and in the end, some, all or none of that text might *ever*
show up in a published RFC.

Perhaps that's less common now, because people can just throw up that
sort of thing on their blog, or a medium or substack post, etc.  But I
think there is value, if there is a document that is useful to the
working group's consideration, for it to be posted as an I-D for that
working group, without any kind of presumption that it's going to end
up as a standard or some other kind of RFC.  Other standard groups
(the T13 ZONE DOMAINS effort was my most recent experience of this)
have similar types of never-intended-to-be-normative documents used in
the process of the work of standardization, so this is by no means
unique to the IETF.

Cheers,

					- Ted