Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sat, 14 January 2017 03:33 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E472F1293F5; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:33:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id atVacAo5chE4; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:33:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pg0-x241.google.com (mail-pg0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E5D6129436; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:28:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pg0-x241.google.com with SMTP id 75so92459pgf.3; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:28:05 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4wvoy4pf9lVSDxPLScnBOMbbfsRh3H6RxnqB/4xdoMY=; b=myVyOWO9VvyRYbELppXBcXgO5KWxDo1OiJS8RHKW0zgsB84+E46GSa8Of2neh89zhb EoYIDdF83bxFMYs9ejb5I5yDiFm+mgQi/p/quTPi0OwzrIDa0rZiuy+95DLKTdFoMDD0 CpKZ49q+zCI8wzBBSVU/zOERL2xZsJ8QBZPOe3VudQMm6pGRXs/5CgJR+KRx/mc1pqQ6 0IRnI9TLWBjmqzkUOuSg/D99v5fkZ57xqyLufyPQvlcTv33M5P+V30xIMtcGM5posM/a kRB12o5Ai63TEO7V/YItFO8a4FpcAyIwk3YioVwHg+Toyu12PxyQZNB2D1MGt2CcMnlI 3AAg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=4wvoy4pf9lVSDxPLScnBOMbbfsRh3H6RxnqB/4xdoMY=; b=q2O+ENIR6ur8FHwsx5Mb37c7Bv9j4RWTfHlGz8HTZVRbEwBLMSJiA2jyiMoAdQ5D0O cBlQjMbyFehC8YM5wbTUdyiwu/VQV1eG+QHbYCEssyybmGZGdC2J3riU+vW9uoHHsfLS uKBjbLvEVH1J/rxUFu2MyAKVMiM0+mxgg7JnH85OWq1fDWPXOYididRFoIb3HuY+vIzR N9MfFa6jHNfbwB2U0T1KWF5L3gOVKEy7CYy8dL/5xobXcdbdv6+WWJ7/CTVHCEuW2als tZagw+ogTNeLU3J+tJ4saqAMmTzzvCYxdL466CnVsz71ua14QVZvaeF5XYFDnOP/Uet8 ymqw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLzMHeQv9DYSOLGAUobqP+VnVuqUW5c0+agTlSQ2nvbkwQvoWArxVEKnq/0w2/tXw==
X-Received: by 10.98.133.202 with SMTP id m71mr26533280pfk.102.1484364484772; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:28:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.178.21] ([118.148.125.124]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y6sm32286658pge.16.2017.01.13.19.28.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Jan 2017 19:28:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-06
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>, Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
References: <148406593094.22166.2894840062954191477.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <m2fukqbbwv.wl-randy@psg.com> <F6953234-3F85-4E28-9861-433ADD01A490@gmail.com> <m2wpdzhncn.wl-randy@psg.com> <82245ef2-cd34-9bd6-c04e-f262e285f983@gmail.com> <m2d1frhjfn.wl-randy@psg.com> <18e6e13c-e605-48ff-4906-2d5531624d64@gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr1cvZ8Y3+bHeML=Xwqr+YgDspZGnZi=jqQj4qe2kMc4zw@mail.gmail.com> <m2lguffnco.wl-randy@psg.com> <CAKD1Yr1TrTiPRdyutobmb_77XJ7guNzLrg=H_p7qi4BfQ8V=GA@mail.gmail.com> <m2d1frfm6m.wl-randy@psg.com> <CAKD1Yr2Njjd8_Mr+6TRFF6C5pdcX4yFgpFVyEkykDuytu2B8mg@mail.gmail.com> <2A5073777007277764473D78@PSB>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
Message-ID: <4596c3d4-a337-f08e-7909-f14270b7085f@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 16:28:10 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <2A5073777007277764473D78@PSB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/kaKxxUiIXD-pgnOgq7HJCWgQXn8>
Cc: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, int-dir@ietf.org, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis.all@ietf.org, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 03:33:36 -0000

On 14/01/2017 16:06, John C Klensin wrote:
> 
> 
> --On Friday, January 13, 2017 16:40 +0900 Lorenzo Colitti
> <lorenzo@google.com> wrote:
> 
>> But it's true that supporting /65-/126 increases the cost of
>> the device. The extra bits have to go somewhere. I think I've
>> seen hardware that just converted all prefixes to 128 bit if
>> there was at least one /65 - /126 prefix in the FIB. That
>> costs money for RAM. Obviously that's silly if those prefixes
>> are frequent, and you can save that money using better
>> software engineering - but software engineering costs money
>> too. Prefixes don't cost money, and if we know that we won't
>> run out of them, what's the problem?
> 
> Because you can pick the scenario -- lots of "things", an
> interplanetary network, both, or something else-- but we have
> been here before.   Every time someone has said "there is so
> much address space that we will never run out no matter how
> inefficiently we use them", they have eventually been proven
> wrong.  That history is obviously not just with the
> ARPANET/Internet or even computer networks: "if we know we won't
> ever run out of them" has a nasty tendency to prove that we
> didn't know and didn't get it right.

Which is exactly why we have so far only delegated 1/8 of the
IPv6 address space for global unicast allocation, leaving a *lot*
of space for fixing our mistakes. Moving away from /64 as the
recommended subnet size might, or might not, prove to be necessary in
the long term future. That's why the point about routing being
classless is fundamental. I do think we need to be a bit more
precise on this point in 4291bis.

    Brian