Re: [123attendees] Re: [122attendees] Toward Inclusive Participation– Community Dialogue on Venue Selection (draft-attoumani-ietf-inclusion)

[Behcet Sarikaya <[e-mail]>]

On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 5:34 PM Deb Cooley <[e-mail]> wrote:

> If you attended remotely, there are unlimited fee waivers for remote
> attendance.  As Kyle says, the video teleconferencing situation is pretty
> spectacular.
> For in person attendance, there are a small number of fee waivers, but
> they are much harder to get.
>
> In both cases, a fee waiver has to be applied for.
>
> So if you did the hackathon in Madrid and/or splurged for the workshop in
> Madrid (or received one of the small number of fee waivers), you could
> attend Montreal remotely on a fee waiver.
>
> In all of those cases, you need to figure out which working groups
> interest you, read the mail list, review the drafts, etc.
>
>

+1
well said.

Behcet

> Deb Cooley
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2025 at 4:13 PM Michael De Roover <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, June 9, 2025 7:09:34 PM CEST Kyle Rose wrote:
>> > I do think the IETF's problem with inclusivity is made worse by the
>> > expensive meetings necessary for access to the hallway track, but that
>> is
>> > merely one problem among many. It seems obvious to me that there will
>> never
>> > be a perfectly level playing field (and we should be careful to heed the
>> > lessons of Harrison Bergeron in our attempts to level it) but lots
>> could be
>> > done to make it easier for new folks with new ideas to contribute. But
>> at
>> > the same time let's not fool ourselves into thinking the barriers are
>> all
>> > within the control of the IETF or existing participants to solve.
>> Getting
>> > involved in standards development to the point where one can make an
>> actual
>> > contribution is *hard* and requires application of time and real effort,
>> > whether you are on a company expense account or not.
>> >
>> > One bright spot is that remote participation has improved the experience
>> > for both remote and in-person attendees by at the very least making it
>> > clear who is speaking at the mic. The remote experience is frankly
>> about as
>> > good as I could imagine short of actual telepresence and holo-Dukes
>> walking
>> > the hallways. But with the excellence of Meetecho in 2025, we may have
>> hit
>> > the point of diminishing returns on remote participation: other aspects
>> of
>> > the participant experience likely have lower-hanging fruit.
>> >
>> > Kyle
>>
>> I've been wanting to go to one of these IETF conferences, but I have to
>> admit,
>> the 1000 bucks price point is quite a bitter pill to swallow when doing
>> it out
>> of pocket. Generally when I go to FOSDEM (which I have been attending
>> since
>> 2016), I basically just buy that year's shirt and a couple of beers,
>> alongside
>> the train tickets to get there. All things considered, probably something
>> like
>> 50 euro? Well, that and maybe a hotel, but all of Brussels is
>> consistently
>> over capacity for those weekends. Easier to just take a train back home
>> for
>> the night.
>>
>> For the IETF conferences meanwhile, I'll have to go by plane (which is
>> fine),
>> and probably stick to Madrid or maybe Dublin. But Dublin would apparently
>> have
>> a visa requirement that I'm not really familiar with. So far I only fly
>> regularly within the EU.
>>
>> I do like that the hackathons are free (if memory serves), it really adds
>> to
>> that crowd-sourced spirit that I've gotten accustomed to from FOSDEM. For
>> the
>> first time going to an IETF conference, I think I'll start with just that
>> to
>> test the waters. After that though, doing a one-time splurge.. why not.
>> But
>> even if I do manage to start a business by that time, it would just be a
>> business expense in accounting at best. Much easier when it's a big
>> corporate
>> employer footing the bill, that much is for sure... I remember even for
>> the
>> LPI exams I took at FOSDEM (where they are 50% off), most of my peers
>> were
>> paying for it through their employers as well.
>>
>> --
>> Met vriendelijke groet,
>> Michael De Roover
>>
>> Mail: [e-mail]
>> Web: michael.de.roover.eu.org
>>
>>
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