Re: Sergeant-at-Armss and New proposal/New SOW comment period

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Mon, 02 September 2019 00:26 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9F012013C for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Sep 2019 17:26:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u49_q5W_75Ud for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Sep 2019 17:26:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lj1-x22e.google.com (mail-lj1-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3D731207FD for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 1 Sep 2019 17:26:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lj1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id e17so236675ljf.13 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 01 Sep 2019 17:26:37 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=v69PHzPPZ7RfFad1iCy5UzzQo4pyn74Gsd5BvgSNols=; b=BA7jaPouG6YJRTWvsNrSYlFDvzYwQwrOJSahj5dULXPhNtvmkRIOzUY9NhT4mRzcOa ynx+xRlvsLLomonABMTSfhsgQL3Nd+odHDQ3yZTkMASBlDnaGkrIAXP6tWypZkmWtvt8 HgPwnrPcIDHVXxOSITrQqtIOF31MoOzUhaXmSfjSIrgqahDnVNdMoxv1SCjFqdUl0JX7 gB2sqDyGzbiMV23KlASMT2t+96XLeM7DuqxebKttaT+eTFL6iyB+ReBfwKIiNZooY8/v TVfQ4BZfRfa0xycnR7HqVOpbBeC0F4clQjTEk6MMmo6SGRDPTrz5CnvTjmTaSDCr9hTG WGSA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=v69PHzPPZ7RfFad1iCy5UzzQo4pyn74Gsd5BvgSNols=; b=b2KXyIWJpRK/jgSl6K7/E3In0+RXbmZBHlUaRqTYQp9ewFu5mf1JFW08oXxnLQ0X7a Ixl7JqYTjX30qlci7cko0ntIlGSQjZD45uqi+XD0qGWlEHVHK0xDDORvmk30B/+injCZ BFy5u/5OP8xYKa3WRpS7CaVm0A1bPrMaOsqIZKbEtLiGswMg9wqULPLI5Iw+wqPF24Is dTGYolyULeBwFl/Y4XD3lvG2B7CbTkD6yY9tq7cIz5bMW7zdNdmgxBvc1TIzezcPic1B 0p2IEiGrOOR8vOnPd1hNwmjDcgS0I/y562uz1S4DheaJBaEOCBm8iNmsW3bz+Y+Ng2hN QqDQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXaxlkt7dF1dY1CSB2ChTI37TTqFO6DIEi8hsqMUQzT10N5AZMS b0MCkQvxGgOI3yTi7f4RUUBr4aUCUdGLNOcb0ZTX3Q==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzK8RVijEP+UZYMfIA++lCTM+FnfaJOOG7QNqZNS+XSAW6NO3nCdHWFoIKtMFZYAZrhrU/+SsDNjKG48aoaes8=
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b0e6:: with SMTP id h6mr13801103ljl.18.1567383996145; Sun, 01 Sep 2019 17:26:36 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <061D2F46-71C3-4260-B203-73B07EB59418@encrypted.net> <5B276430-96A9-44EA-929B-B9C2325AFCA5@encrypted.net> <863c6fa8-2735-b2c6-5542-d5d100485a6e@outer-planes.net> <10843FAF-66D2-483D-96AB-2F993803AAC6@cisco.com> <6FA9D85E1B425914CA994AFD@PSB> <dcda8d0b-3e75-53de-560c-cf6942e61efd@nostrum.com> <CABcZeBPQu4oZ6pGT8cgAFPTQk4nnQm4S9LzVF46dwBCA+kO7Sw@mail.gmail.com> <m21rwzfv17.wl-randy@psg.com> <CABcZeBMJVGbKg4P8R26GqJ19wjn5dLRJdZYhVBMWmzizcgBy4Q@mail.gmail.com> <m2woereezk.wl-randy@psg.com>
In-Reply-To: <m2woereezk.wl-randy@psg.com>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2019 17:25:59 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBP+dFB8K9MBvB2ta4Bnh-jN=-e-_7AFtzQeiuG-WxN_9A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sergeant-at-Armss and New proposal/New SOW comment period
To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: IETF Rinse Repeat <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000512ae2059187063d"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/lHFZg7Rtey01SQdlh8zvDUIJwoE>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 00:26:47 -0000

On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 5:09 PM Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:

> > do folk not have delete and delete-thread keys?
> >
> > Of course, but I don't generally think that imposing the cost of
> > thread management on every reader is usually a good tradeoff when we
> > have clearly distinct subjects. After all, taken to its conclusion,
> > one could argue we don't need separate mailing lists at all.
>
> or taken to the other conclusion, we could have a whole lot of mailing
> lists, most ephemeral if we are lucky.


I had thought that was in fact the basic premise of having a pile of WGs
each with their own list.

-Ekr


  maybe i am older and at least
> occasionally more patient, but i doubt resolving the rse cf will last
> all that long.  if the political fallout of the root causes last a bit
> longer, would we have a fork of a fork?
>