Re: Registration details for IETF 108
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sun, 31 May 2020 22:33 UTC
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Subject: Re: Registration details for IETF 108
To: ietf@ietf.org
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2020 10:33:31 +1200
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On 01-Jun-20 09:44, Melinda Shore wrote: > On 5/31/20 1:13 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote: >> I don't think the characterization of this as "pay-to-play" is accurate. You >> are certainly free to participate in mailing lists, github, etc. > > I'm somewhat troubled by this, as well, tbh. What troubles me is the lack of a debate in the community before this was announced with about a week's notice. For my own part, I have no idea whether I would have to pay this out of my own pocket or not, and determining that would take more rounds of email than can happen before registration opens. Since this isn't a travel-related fee, the procedures many of us are used to for meeting fees don't apply. I'm very much aware that this is the new normal, but it's going to take a while for employers' approval procedures to catch up. How many people will be excluded for that reason? It probably doesn't matter in my case since the announced timezone for the meeting rules it out anyway, but as a matter of principle, we haven't had a debate about the principle, and that seems wrong. For example, 1) Is listen-only attendance charged the same fee as listen-and-speak? If so, is that right or wrong? 2) Why is there a late fee? It's not as if extra cookies have to be bought at the last minute. And I'm sure there are other questions. Brian > To the extent that > the IETF has gradually and effectively moved to having decisions > made in meetings it would be unfortunate indeed to exclude > people based on financial circumstances. I'd like to see the > decision-making situation fixed but given the history of that > discussion I think we are where we are, and free remote participation > provides at least some mitigation. I also tend to think that > saying that meeting participation isn't necessary because {mailing > lists,Github,whatever} is incompatible with the insistence that > the IETF continue to meet because it's not really possible to > progress work without real-time discussion. I'll also note that > for as long as there's been a remote participation option available > it's been free. We're now in the odd position of having all-remote > meetings absorb what used to be "remote participants" into the > group of "participants," with some consequential side-effects > (although arguably there are no such things as side-effects, just > effects). > > I do think this decision has some unintended consequences. > Scholarships or other subsidy might provide some mitigation > but would potentially be messy/awkward. The organization > is long overdue for some navel-gazing about working methods. > It's unreasonable to expect perfect consistency but I think > things have gotten a little more incoherent than they should > be. > > Melinda >
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Eric Rescorla
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Melinda Shore
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Alissa Cooper
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Alissa Cooper
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration details for IE… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 tom petch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Bob Hinden
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Lixia Zhang
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Scott Kitterman
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Robert Raszuk
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Michael StJohns
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joseph Touch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joseph Touch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Colin Perkins
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joseph Touch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Adrian Farrel
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John Levine
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Mehmet Ersue
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Eric Rescorla
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Eric Rescorla
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John Levine
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Pete Resnick
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Pete Resnick
- Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for IET… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for IET… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Robert Raszuk
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Robert Raszuk
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Alissa Cooper
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Ted Hardie
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… tom petch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 tom petch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Robert Raszuk
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Bajpai, Vaibhav
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Daniel Karrenberg
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Colin Perkins
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Michael Richardson
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Michael Richardson
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- standards? (was: Registration details for IETF 10… Randy Bush
- Re: standards? (was: Registration details for IET… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: standards? (was: Registration details for IET… Michael Richardson
- Re: standards? (was: Registration details for IET… Phillip Hallam-Baker