Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request
Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com> Sat, 25 March 2017 20:42 UTC
Return-Path: <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A152A126BFD for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 13:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.021
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=qti.qualcomm.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dDAJ6NWRHm3y for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 13:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7103124D68 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 13:42:30 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1490474550; x=1522010550; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=J3BTFsPkv9lo9aaTYEatZzTXbgxYpavQhy0maqC05YQ=; b=oAnR4V40oxy+ygK6SR3Q/GzrGPVvKIMMLS7pbrtu82QMI6aC7Te7H1fr nBngn5HmpOJRBxkeN8O0lj5T2FlXagb4QEAdvVTrLr5MTUslL+owTjoko nAMJBxjGcYj5+1GkkZ5gvrzlRtMIGU9EegKXsIBkgEU4iFy2xn1NX/x/V I=;
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.36,222,1486454400"; d="scan'208";a="368126817"
Received: from unknown (HELO ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com) ([10.53.140.106]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 25 Mar 2017 13:42:30 -0700
X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5800,7501,8478"; a="926167304"
X-MGA-submission: MDExOCV+LPe5LE8uVpNXP4IWt2VBiYgZPQAvGQ7j0WC7TTH/NdZy8fZ2trrS/B5V/71FgnZqQh6tjBwm7h9G85usqnt0xicWtYT0PJs6Z9G6CdQuq6S7KGRCF7b6CtRrzSLGFyB1JukVPxWOBdFQOFCN
Received: from nasanexm01f.na.qualcomm.com ([10.85.0.32]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 25 Mar 2017 13:42:30 -0700
Received: from [10.64.105.168] (10.80.80.8) by NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 13:42:29 -0700
From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
CC: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, IETF general list <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:42:28 -0500
Message-ID: <BB078B16-C911-4505-9BB0-C0BEE2C6F5C4@qti.qualcomm.com>
In-Reply-To: <303E2204-762B-43A5-9469-1E063948344C@piuha.net>
References: <20170324193951.85037.qmail@ary.lan> <5DAE09F6-D7DE-47B4-ABA6-BC9A92DDEE4E@qti.qualcomm.com> <alpine.OSX.2.20.1703241826550.72979@ary.qy> <0341FB9B-E672-400C-916E-3C6AC0685307@qti.qualcomm.com> <303E2204-762B-43A5-9469-1E063948344C@piuha.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"; markup="markdown"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5347)
X-Originating-IP: [10.80.80.8]
X-ClientProxiedBy: NASANEXM01B.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.82) To NASANEXM01F.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.32)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/lTcr6pjdtgKrbLtwWybqNg7rOMA>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 20:42:33 -0000
Thanks Jari. I was absolutely contributing to missing the forest for the trees. Sorry for that. My apparent vehemence notwithstanding, it's not the particular mechanism I care about; it's that we end up with a structure where the IETF maintains control over its own affairs, and decides for itself what is (or is not) important to it. You are exactly right that we need to figure out what's important first, and figure out mechanism to make that happen second. Discussions of what lawyers should or should not do will be taken to the pub. pr On 25 Mar 2017, at 12:23, Jari Arkko wrote: > John, Pete, > > I think you’re diving deep into the details of one particular aspect > of this problem. That’s fine, but I wanted to point out that the > overall > issues are broader. Even on the aspect of creating pushback for > authorities generating unnecessary subpoenas, there are multiple > approaches, document distribution within the leadership is just one > way. > > And then there are other issues, worrying about the privacy > of the people mentioned in any subpoena, re-examining if we > could tune what information we retain at the IETF, rewriting the > algorithm on what our staff should do automatically and when > they need to alert the leadership, looking at what other organisations > have done in these kinds of situations, and so on. > > FWIW, I think we at the legal committee and leadership want to be on > listening and learning mode about this issue for a while before > jumping into specific ways to address the issues. Keep those thoughts > coming! > > Jari -- Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/> Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478
- IETF subpoena processes update and a request IETF Chair
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Angela
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Randy Bush
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Scott Bradner
- RE: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Michael Cameron
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Scott Bradner
- RE: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Michael Cameron
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Randy Bush
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Scott Bradner
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request John C Klensin
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Scott O. Bradner
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Pete Resnick
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Michael Richardson
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request John Levine
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Pete Resnick
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Nico Williams
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Pete Resnick
- IAOC membership (was: Re: IETF subpoena processes… Dave Crocker
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Joe Touch
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Michael Richardson
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request John R Levine
- Re: RTBF, was IETF subpoena processes update and … John Levine
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Pete Resnick
- Re: RTBF, was IETF subpoena processes update and … Joe Touch
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request Pete Resnick
- Re: IETF subpoena processes update and a request John C Klensin