IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action)

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Thu, 07 May 2026 21:33 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietf@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34BF8EADBC0B for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Thu, 7 May 2026 14:33:23 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1778189603; bh=ON3O9HjlBkUN1aDPxFYGRuKWh6uqUQxg3cq57HDNvWU=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=As5gog+JD6OgJDLEWXqf0QrLjcKNu2fal4QU4DVgA8Zf4L9x2N8q7vudyZxV2IAVn 7Zel3iMUckx+ZOuL4lfC1E7rdCjY1xbAboguCBEFXLwS4hgqioJXaIIDgLx0Pr/Y8g gMRIYRcpZEoEISwkjuSk4RlyyWCBRYHX/mK5IV4Q=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9HUx_4yZ2_3z for <ietf@mail2.ietf.org>; Thu, 7 May 2026 14:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pg1-x530.google.com (mail-pg1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E28AFEADBC06 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 7 May 2026 14:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pg1-x530.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-c8095d7d75bso600486a12.1 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 07 May 2026 14:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20251104; t=1778189602; x=1778794402; darn=ietf.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ON3O9HjlBkUN1aDPxFYGRuKWh6uqUQxg3cq57HDNvWU=; b=OvBA/a7Cf+QZMN/EeSzOmoP0juqhjVT+DlY3R1+XdoZY4sdJWojNoJaCHNUeKqwMMx 1TlWLxM1CoBGovx3zd5xZqoSoLnYnq460r4SkQQEE/7a2Bnmd2wjfkRQCzuD8f7RkUM8 JiXHLxLbvcxJb+ARtBGLrPH8F/XWt0ziYeMoO4qVRb3r+fnPC/G+IVP/DqskDscXbk1h Uof9HHQN7QLWGLxKdVkq5RS6FvsVpfvNmc7AgSXxnpLTtVqC7A+i1XNV8L4emnvjRIlh Y9Nj7vnljG/54eZHjoDCFtslOpu62/r4Z3oPdidpdh6fb0KCyWFS9ddPb5laRTDlKnOA aXOg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1778189602; x=1778794402; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ON3O9HjlBkUN1aDPxFYGRuKWh6uqUQxg3cq57HDNvWU=; b=M7e5++jAsTAyKd7rZIq+DZdtGN66cJ2GJmw2Xx4S/rZaKCpVUIrjUXzTVG4I/gzg66 27uzN+bmRhUKKmSY8zomET26OnMDt/BvEh7d8tk5uejTIUZ1KavRWiI+EDy+/nZPkCrX 51+zludMKrRpg7l1Y/DvbouuJU4nwUinaZkxFtsoCzpGx5xtXMBMb1cA1QI9Ssvi1Pji wkAb+30q/A1yfjfn36VaEG+pbQd11YaSSn+v946Nq8FlGyOr35uPLFBt5aq4cuKyx2CN yE0J5tv/XtyifDFCV5B8QrThZ8v22cvMuKe0VZsW3ypVO2yfhWzyQUvsjWFI34CALknC pdiQ==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AFNElJ+VYciWIn7DsR0j/3vZ8VIQX8l/z4JP1ThOR6IrChOTc68IHuXhrRiYi0P/OBlrXc2s5X2y@ietf.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxBuPfi7WjCUb55YPac9Qh3KBnDLzFQWUadEpJ9yuYt/1Tu72D2 g+W13mdO0E8XmLE0kKHFepbK/DJY/NeRyrFAf+4LxUEwZGGWth1/xtZP
X-Gm-Gg: AeBDietXG1Cf51QyVrQ4KKlTdGH1bQPok+Zmze9uSRTfel1nbjehgvYLZIRRAo/U70m cLjbRt/7stZLkGNMWvxoudqTrNArtQhvQlIXM7vzJSW3TK2ZSv8BR76dtp3neJvZ9mmB/G3qD8a dWeEzEWMejDwKOHfG99Sx7nvgsGpNljj3PSdYUSBmKKnDvgDrfF+3LHendWq9hfXTvqROQBiXyk pTWsuUTnPVv8z9jpT+xqdtjfLSQh0XXUxf3o0Z+zkphOjAIL5qcF2sHAAcSyQovcYNQk7mgmb88 bNEiHmJunNekUoMP/UhORTpzKKpBNZFQmwTgSpjRKPhPmtBPNyRlpFLaZeyt1x9U9pf0lg1eWiC vmQleLMTNtL/LKZFuik48btl+/sC7utvrC9KOJ47ffz8HKItyi5bJnZA5bO32SRzTAo/40x3IXo XplFHFcxmLlZUPV40zCGKWOo5/ks5LXa3eS01tg1ZBturIE1XzPelZ8oyEdBXts23VH+0qZWt5W WXIHI1Ey35NbU01Fg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:7fa4:b0:3a1:90ef:7e2d with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-3aa5a936b3dmr9829543637.26.1778189602008; Thu, 07 May 2026 14:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPV6:2404:4400:a100:1829:5956:ca53:df83:6568? ([2404:4400:a100:1829:5956:ca53:df83:6568]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 41be03b00d2f7-c8263fc6a59sm574646a12.7.2026.05.07.14.33.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 07 May 2026 14:33:21 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <f3508e9a-85c4-4e4d-94d2-dd70262b9a6c@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 08 May 2026 09:33:15 +1200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Subject: Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action)
Content-Language: en-US
To: Scott Bradner <sob@sobco.com>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
References: <CAChr6Sy1jsjNzh1qMEDVx7ABp_1_uPkfx_tY-T7zPpXTdZiXtQ@mail.gmail.com> <877bpgb7bq.fsf@josefsson.org> <c7aae006-be27-4beb-9553-0b8efb4bd600@gmail.com> <C52845E5-9189-44B8-8D7F-0BAFF3AC6637@hpe.com> <703DFFB4E2C0103A7A308BB2@PSB> <16781B7E-2AD8-49DA-AD16-BF08F4FAFD50@sobco.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <16781B7E-2AD8-49DA-AD16-BF08F4FAFD50@sobco.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Message-ID-Hash: EUNUFCSYI64R5YLMABPD5JSS33BCXFO6
X-Message-ID-Hash: EUNUFCSYI64R5YLMABPD5JSS33BCXFO6
X-MailFrom: brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-ietf.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: "Scudder, John" <john.scudder@hpe.com>, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IETF-Discussion. This is the most general IETF mailing list, intended for discussion of technical, procedural, operational, and other topics for which no dedicated mailing lists exist." <ietf.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/lgfRc2uDjNhWTt28Eu7cvgBvnuw>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:ietf-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ietf-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ietf-leave@ietf.org>

On 08-May-26 07:57, Scott Bradner wrote:
> 
> 
>> On May 7, 2026, at 3:53 PM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>> I don't remember, but I think the strong distinction implied by "WG
>> adoption" and posting of documents as draft-ietf-WGNAME-... rather
>> than draft-AuthorName-... came after the no-derivative language.  If
>> so, that was not a very strong reason.  My memory could be wrong
>> however.
> 
> yup - the non-derivative language needs to be removed in order for a ID to be be adopted (signaled by renaming)

Yes, but "adoption" is not defined by any of our BCPs.

However, both Rob and I are proposing in different ways to remove this pathway completely.

    Brian

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status