Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' to BCP
"JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@jefsey.com> Thu, 25 August 2005 03:43 UTC
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Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 03:39:03 +0200
To: david.nospam.hopwood@blueyonder.co.uk, ietf@ietf.org
From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@jefsey.com>
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Subject: Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' to BCP
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At 17:34 24/08/2005, David Hopwood wrote: >JFC (Jefsey) Morfin wrote: >>I would like to understand why >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-registry-12.txt >>claims to be a BCP: it introduces a standard track proposition, >>conflicting with current practices and development projects under way? > >I've read this draft and see nothing wrong with it. Having a fixed, >unambiguous way to parse the elements of a language tag is certainly >a good idea. What specific current practices do you think it conflicts >with? Dear David, Before parsing the language tags many issues are to be considered which have important consequences often out of the IETF scope (L8/9). I could tell you I work on brain to brain interintelligibilty related tools and projects for 25 years: the inadequation, the scarcity, the centalised control of the proposed solution directly oppose the work of my own R&D organisation. But you could object "too bad for you" (we are used to that). So, I will tell you something different. Today, the common practice of nearly one billion of Internet users is to be able to turn off cookies to protect their anonymous free usage of the web. Once the Draft enters into action they will be imposed a conflicting privacy violation: "tell me what you read, I will tell you who you are": any OPES can monitor the exchange, extact these unambigous ASCII tags, and know (or block) what you read. You can call these tags in google and learn a lot about people. There is no proposed way to turn that personal tagging off, nor to encode it. >>I support it as a transition standard track RFC needed by some, as >>long as it does not exclude more specific/advanced language >>identification formats, processes or future IANA or ISO 11179 >>conformant registries. > >The grammar defined in the draft is already flexible enough. (I suppose you mean more than just grammar. Talking of the ABNF is probably clearer?). I am certainly eager to learn how I can support modal information (type of voice, accent, signs, icons, feelings, fount, etc.), medium information, language references (for example is it plain, basic, popular English? used dictionary, used software publisher), nor the context (style, relation, etc.), nor the nature of the text (mono, multilingual, human or machine oriented - for example what is the tag to use for a multilingual file [printed in a language of choice]), the date of the langtag version being used, etc. The Draft relates language tags to a centraly controled and managed registry. This is a deprecating concept as the Internet distributed nature becomes more and more a reality. This is fully documented by the RFC on URI tags. That RFC proposes some examples, using standard Internet schemes. It would be great if you could show me how the Draft can support them. The Draft has introduced the "script" subtag in addition to RFC 3066 (what is an obvious change). However in order to stay "compatible" with RFC 3066, author says it cannot introduce a specific support of URI tags. This is why I would be more than gratefull if you could show me how the ABNF is "already flexible enough" to support them. Deep thanks. jfc >-- >David Hopwood <david.nospam.hopwood@blueyonder.co.uk> > > >_______________________________________________ >Ietf mailing list >Ietf@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- RE: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Scott Hollenbeck
- RE: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… David Hopwood
- RE: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Scott Hollenbeck
- RE: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- RE: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Scott Hollenbeck
- RE: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Bill Fenner
- RE: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… David Hopwood
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Bruce Lilly
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Bruce Lilly
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Frank Ellermann
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Peter Constable
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- RE: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Peter Constable
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Peter Constable
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- RE: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Peter Constable
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Peter Constable
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Doug Ewell
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Doug Ewell
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… JFC (Jefsey) Morfin
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Ned Freed
- Re: [Ltru] Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying L… Mark Davis
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Bruce Lilly
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Bruce Lilly
- Re: Is it necessary to go through Standards Track… Bruce Lilly
- Re: Is it necessary to go through Standards Track… Frank Ellermann
- Re: Last Call: 'Tags for Identifying Languages' t… Frank Ellermann
- Re: Is it necessary to go through Standards Track… Brian E Carpenter