Re: list managers, was DMARC and ietf.org

"John R Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> Sun, 14 August 2016 16:57 UTC

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Date: 14 Aug 2016 12:57:19 -0400
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From: "John R Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
To: "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>
Subject: Re: list managers, was DMARC and ietf.org
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> Do you know of anyone working on Majordomo?

Of course not.  Both MJ1 and MJ2 have been abandonware for a long time.

>  (This has been the only mailing list software that has proven to be 
> capable of handling the mailing list traffic for the kernel.org mailing 
> lists.)

This suggests it's been quite a while since you looked at the 
alternatives, since MJ1 is not particularly fast.  The most popular 
actively maintained open source list managers these days seem to be 
Mailman (python and postgres, from the GNU crowd) and Sympa (perl and 
mysql, from Renater in France.)  Both are used to manage large numbers of 
large busy lists, with archives.

I switched from MJ1 to MJ2 in about 2002 because MJ2 had much better list 
management and filtering tools, but finally gave up on MJ2 a year ago when 
it had trouble with perl 5.20 and moved everything to Sympa without much 
trouble.

More to the point, DMARC isn't going away.  If ARC works, which seems 
likely, and your lists put ARC headers on the mail, your lists can keep 
working the way they do now.  The alternative is either gross hacks to 
rewrite From: lines, or to make your lists irrelevant by telling people 
they can only use non-DMARC mail providers which in a few years will be 
none of the large ones.

Furthermore, having actually added anti-DMARC shims to both MJ2 and Sympa, 
I know that you don't have to change the list manager code at all other 
than one line to call the shim rather than calling sendmail (or whatever) 
directly.  The shim does what it needs to do and passes the message to the 
real mail injection program.  My current shim which does the dmarc.fail 
From: hackery and adds DKIM signatures is 282 lines of not particularly 
tightly written perl.

If a bunch of Linux kernel hackers can't do that to MJ1, Linux is in even 
worse shape than I thought.

R's,
John