Re: BCP97bis
"Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com> Mon, 18 October 2021 17:30 UTC
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From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 10:30:10 -0700
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Subject: Re: BCP97bis
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Cc: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
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On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 8:38 AM John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote: > Murray, I think Rich is right. Maybe it should be different, > but when I have written, been shepherd for, or otherwise been > heavily involved with documents that make normative references > outside the RFC Series in recent years, I think it has been > unusual if even one IESG member other than the responsible AD > studied all of the references documents carefully. > It's happened at least twice during my time on the IESG, which led me (or, I suppose, us, meaning the current IESG) to believe this is a pattern that might be worth addressing with revised guidance as there currently doesn't seem to be any. It's certainly true that this might be unusual overall, but it has stood out in my own context. [...] > > The solution to the latter type of situation is not to be sure > free copies of [BigDoc] are available to anyone who might (or > should) be interested in the hope they will read them, but for > the IESG to push things more in the direction of RFC 20 and good > summaries about exactly what the actual requirements are in > practice. There are many much more recent examples that have > done just that. > So then the way to resolve this problem might be to codify exactly the practice you're proposing: If the primary target document is not freely available, craft an RFC that captures the important requirements of it so we can use that as our reference. That document can then be normative for our future work on that topic. It's more work for the IETF, to be sure, but if we say this is the process then at least working groups will know what's expected of them as far ahead of time as possible. -MSK
- BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Russ Housley
- Re: BCP97bis Scott Bradner
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis David Farmer
- Re: BCP97bis Brian Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Scott Bradner
- Re: BCP97bis Russ Housley
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis and Informational-as-Standard Michael Richardson
- RE: BCP97bis Larry Masinter
- Re: BCP97bis Joel M. Halpern
- Re: BCP97bis Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis Brian E Carpenter
- RE: BCP97bis Larry Masinter
- Re: BCP97bis John Levine
- Re: BCP97bis Scott Bradner
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis Russ Housley
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis Carsten Bormann
- Re: BCP97bis tom petch
- RE: BCP97bis mohamed.boucadair
- RE: BCP97bis ned+ietf
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- BCP97bis and "freely available" John C Klensin
- RE: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- RE: BCP97bis mohamed.boucadair
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem tom petch
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Warren Kumari
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Lars Eggert
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Warren Kumari
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Scott O. Bradner
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis John C Klensin
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" John C Klensin
- BCP written by another AD [was Re: BCP97bis] Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Sandy Wills
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Michael StJohns
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" George Michaelson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Randy Presuhn
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" George Michaelson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem Michael Richardson
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" Michael Richardson
- RE: BCP97bis ned+ietf
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem Brian E Carpenter
- Re: BCP97bis and "freely available" tom petch
- Re: BCP97bis a process problem tom petch
- Re: BCP written by another AD [was Re: BCP97bis] Erik Kline
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: BCP97bis Salz, Rich
- Re: BCP97bis Murray S. Kucherawy