Re: "professional" in an IETF context

Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> Mon, 01 November 2021 16:39 UTC

Return-Path: <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BBEF3A3576 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Nov 2021 09:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1iak4ipZgOnU for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Nov 2021 09:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm1-x332.google.com (mail-wm1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6ACBB3A3575 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Nov 2021 09:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm1-x332.google.com with SMTP id z200so12865973wmc.1 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 01 Nov 2021 09:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=z6TJ4C4eer9Wd1XC9MEiaLEX7Uq8dxHleFMkFTjrfNA=; b=NXrWs97djBgy3W6UbC08wKWdEl9qa1pvH557BVdqaIKhwxGsr9esksHynuAgCPDWXD CIb62DqkEWmX5zsVmyUbWOnPyC7WjEyDCSg0NktT0tZ6Xy7/gxE6NL1E60V5/faYiod8 DuQ4O9XhlfS8YyHq4jM1RD7r3khAs0yE2vQpVVgWkwhsIab5rBIUJYuWXUzyWu1tBprv 6iGd0InGh8eZOkkW9vt2JY6zXYyaRq7PuIvNIgA59a8YVoOAI55wbNv2a2Ch0au8LX6D uKvUpI5AStbxj1KT1I79FKj4UbiJWC3XkuSOF1+0HdChXlWq5KZKw/f7er8FoG7rvObK Fuqg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=z6TJ4C4eer9Wd1XC9MEiaLEX7Uq8dxHleFMkFTjrfNA=; b=S1wnHsEDJcF6knjKYMwENy7BHKFDjJPDkpyraTRHk9VzDwiqxcOkD+oyn66of/YVKt yicr3ISM4nFkVLiK2CWUfYd10uqW3PDTT8wFu1CY5WkOCeKZvoLFB917wcZ4PWxjYoR+ zJw4Bfh22UDP1z/cWqXY0BUky4chm1Hkh59XnoJWOo5s8yJvG4aXWQyNeck+EvCWidJr EVykS/Zyb3LTaAlX9mu1PR3/2aQyv4X4KokeJoHtuMKRlClfxLyJR9dXbsUypQbcIoij Lj+AMKl+NbxW5PiOOjxunpufoeVTkSqCZ9XeYhrtkdMdcK1szhxTTRDZf/35m0uNo0zL ElEA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ZH0qNCxfQHVgsi+KLQKSaoMXnXuBNF2bMAYANv7Jo2yeDicqN fYrftmTxI6CcWXNAnS4WZ5g=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz+e6h4DmSVp8vtMf2/th3+lwxSHcBfDH94zSLzUEVgh2AeQQxE0cCCiDatpH21KdAfyqWh2w==
X-Received: by 2002:a1c:21d7:: with SMTP id h206mr20891wmh.60.1635784779532; Mon, 01 Nov 2021 09:39:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2a00:23c5:3395:c901:576:7f69:cce1:bb1e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q193sm4979wme.48.2021.11.01.09.39.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 01 Nov 2021 09:39:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <4D862DAB-F18F-45C3-9E7F-548235126E91@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A861C4D6-AF6F-4BBB-9AE7-12ACDF4DC886"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\))
Subject: Re: "professional" in an IETF context
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2021 16:39:38 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CAC8QAceMSrfkqGTYcMNr3JargO3gxJqTaEyf02LGHd-KVeUDHw@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, Masataka Ohta <mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
To: sarikaya@ieee.org
References: <8F4B97EA-665F-4A59-B99D-791B4AB9F2F7@yahoo.co.uk> <746C1453-FFB0-46E5-ABF2-8630DC23B959@network-heretics.com> <c3e9fe1b-8e48-a364-9e25-4084dac70889@meetinghouse.net> <3a6bf8ad-5492-0942-a451-6317e8a93705@network-heretics.com> <3e685576-a230-a7c4-f371-d66a55aa820d@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <7a087707-499f-e3bf-8701-1a58930a8a22@meetinghouse.net> <4ec32d7a-a17b-635b-91bc-4152313d6800@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <885e62bf-7d6a-4501-a48a-e7c2cbf20382@joelhalpern.com> <e59adb61-a55c-7f5f-a60a-40bf186c139d@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <CAC8QAceMSrfkqGTYcMNr3JargO3gxJqTaEyf02LGHd-KVeUDHw@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/mq53zEPU13MFYYIN0-1x0I674HE>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2021 16:39:48 -0000

> 
> It could be. But IPv6 was made workable by clever modifications over time and now it works pretty well and widely used.

To quote a well known phrase, “you may think that, but I could not possible comment” … but I will.

IP fundamentally started out as a UNI and extended its scope to attempt to be a universal connectivity protocol.

IPv6 was designed around the perception of how the Internet worked over 20 years ago.

IPv6 as a UNI is in my view inadequate in that it does not properly support the degree of sophistication needed to specify current and future SLOs. A trivial example is the way that ECN needed to be hacked into it. Adding support for determinism in will be much harder. The one size fits all addressing and the way that we have to work round that is problemantic. The single address size and domain was a good idea at the time, except that most of the time IP  traffic sits in another protocol with an entirely different addressing scope and paradigm.

However  we seem to find it hard to accept that the fundamental internet protocols should be in a perpetual state of renewal or otherwise risk obsolescence.

As professionals we should accept that we need to continually test status quo against the unthinkable, but as an institution we seem to find that hard to accept.

Best regards

Stewart