Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Submissions Editor
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Sat, 14 September 2019 18:57 UTC
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Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 14:57:34 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
cc: IETF <ietf@ietf.org>, RFC Interest <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>
Subject: Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Submissions Editor
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Let me add, essentially from my earlier note but Mike's format and style of analysis: Strategy 3A: Extend the current ISE's term for a fixed amount (preferably 24 months because going through these exercises very often incurs it own cost and potential collateral damage) now; gather feedback ("review comments" becomes an incorrect description) after the RSE issues are resolved, or in progress to being resolved. POGS: 100% (ISE is simply reappointed now and the feedback is forward-facing and presumably helpful to the ISE as advertised but not about evaluation or renewal) Cost: Cost to community to provide comments; cost to IAB to collate them and provide feedback to the ISE. I'm ok with either this or Mike's 2 or 3, but this would seem to combine the best features of both if the IAB and/or the ISE believe that a formal effort to collect feedback would be helpful. best, john --On Saturday, September 14, 2019 13:23 -0400 Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> wrote: > On 9/13/2019 8:12 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: >> Mike, (but also addressing John): >> >> On 14/09/2019 00:51, Mike StJohns wrote: >>> If Adrian will be reappointed regardless of the result of >>> the review, then there’s no obvious reason for >>> gathering review material between now and the expiration of >>> the new appointment period. >> Huh? Gathering, anonymising and providing feedback seems >> like a fairly obvious and entirely normal reason to me. >> Doing that every couple of years regardless of whatever >> else is going on also seems entirely unremarkable to me >> too. > > Me too. But that can either be an end to itself, or feed > into a review process with consequences... > > >> >> Honestly folks - those of you suspicious of the IAB and >> all our doings don't need to be quite so concerned. It >> is just not the case that everything the IAB does is >> shrouded in one of scheming or ineptitude;-) I say that >> as an IAB member who does think the IAB has variously >> messed up recently. > > This really isn't so much about trust, but about game theory. > > > Goal: Avoid having to find a new ISE at the same time we're > resolving the RSE issues. > > Assumptions: The current ISE is willing to continue for some > period with or without a review, and there are no > unforeseeable events that cause the ISE to be vacant (Adrian > falling over dead, etc). > > Strategy 1: Defer the periodic review until after the RSE > issues are resolved, or in progress to being resolved. > > Probability of Goal Success (POGS): 100% > Cost: None > > Strategy 2: Extend the current ISE's term for a fixed amount > (e.g. 6, 12, 18 or 24 months) without gathering review > comments. > > POGS: 100% > Cost: None > > Strategy 3: Extend the current ISE's term for a fixed > amount; gather review comments but the extension is > guaranteed, the comments do not affect the length of the term. > > POGS: ~100% (ISE could decline to be reappointed after > feedback) > Cost: Cost to community to provide comments; cost to IAB > to collate them and provide feedback to the ISE. > > Strategy 4: Execute the periodic review on time; reappoint > or not reappoint the ISE dependent on that process > > POGS: < 100% (IAB fails to reach consensus on > reappointment, ISE declines to be reappointed for whatever > reason) > Cost: As with strategy 3, plus the possible cost of > having to find a new RSE. > > > The first 2 strategies meet the goal without ever having to > evaluate the probabilities related to human foibles. The > third strategy only depends on the ISE's determinations, but > given the assumption, probably not a risk). The first two > strategies have the lowest cost. Strategy 1 vs Strategy 2 is > more about how you want to fold in the delay against the > current model. Only the 4th strategy has a probability of > failure (outside of the assumptions I made above). It > doesn't matter how small that probability is - I don't see any > reason whatsoever for the community to take that risk at this > time. Maybe I'm being too risk averse, but if I have > strategies that are risk free and cost free, why wouldn't I > take them? > > >> >> I can say that there have been no IAB discussions at >> all that I could see leading to any chance whatsoever >> that we cause the same kind of bad outcome as happened >> with the RSE. > > Sure - but it's irrelevant to the analysis and it's actually > not something you can guarantee. If the IAB wants to > avoid even the slimmest possibility, maybe choose a different > strategy. > > Later, Mike > > >> >> Does that help assuage any suspicions or worries? >> >> Cheers, >> S. >> >
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Michael StJohns
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Michael StJohns
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Randy Bush
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Richard Barnes
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Mike StJohns
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Randy Bush
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Randy Bush
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Melinda Shore
- ietf@ list as a proxy for community opinion (not) Keith Moore
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Nico Williams
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Randy Bush
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Michael StJohns
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… John C Klensin
- Re: [rfc-i] IAB Seeks Feedback on Independent Sub… Ted Hardie