IETF Logo Mail Archive

RE: document writing/editing tools used by IETF

Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org> Fri, 26 February 2021 06:08 UTC

Return-Path: <masinter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 066AB3A1404 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 22:08:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.498
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bSBB-qxEVXIL for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 22:08:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com (mail-pf1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2D433A1239 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 22:07:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id j24so5563985pfi.2 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 22:07:49 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-language :thread-index; bh=4t+GlPQaBmG+zlpINsPSHa/6GpV2jKufKTZI46lCHf0=; b=dtKqyNQJwFY83f8lwuyA4OTnEVJJU2joVMk1j0IlOy8Z+ESWH3eXs8NkGf3hBaFNWk YOdOzc1W6DNITkadAtNgHX9ndSUHCov64eW0CfYQbHFR3YHY7NW6A6RvrvwlHC8+gU7b Zxb1JfEhkKLWhJzA0H7TNmO454VsmvT53L+P0wx4SepUQlWD637Ch9MQ5Jk3dGIAlE5J z8YMldlEfIroP2NYaqiBgnnYpOF8G2RneKtPYoZBdMFOFLKJ9MldSitUfmFhWJSWB7F6 Jezrte3FZVTQvW9C7UEgxJaRCgd/hChwwzamS3MTFy9ne0eMG85JpqCzJv4i4eKXLc0x v68A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-language:thread-index; bh=4t+GlPQaBmG+zlpINsPSHa/6GpV2jKufKTZI46lCHf0=; b=tPziA5I5efR6NcaGd1Me500d/8bCvf+YXi6n17T4yHC4wDx2lPHZ4CX9+ALES17fbD TYAFdqgiWW9BRvohQB/jhyjYxg88HW9/76wFFEwY51xxhkNLipH4mPY7gsnqOipzAa2f v7SLInq1HMI3N4gUn6XDU7K7JhzqxAsmc+PqXclfMslavxshn1aTLjOEngGqdFRWFRR0 60arIWDNxU4NaDlFbzz7lzJdBDIbwtAsUiCSseTFE8i1o3ApJ32Ngl6sHqv+0OONjNzy rJOPwbKfbORNwbvGmJ7ZyIqUU2p3HsE+sdzwWIkY7PkljAeDkl/4i88sNzPS5cGZS6Bg Wtpg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5313mtWDZp6I5u0f7rpdsI/7BaL8leYV8znsqYCUMNhFmX/OhMbR wfiCa+GFHxgPvW01oMEbIeVaGvQW+7g=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwcasocE5vrw4/wLq1PUQM0GuTaAJRD5rfmnIW0kyUhx2EoNQ/Cpcn9zTCrp07gXtsexuOhEQ==
X-Received: by 2002:aa7:910c:0:b029:1ed:ef1:81b with SMTP id 12-20020aa7910c0000b02901ed0ef1081bmr1585630pfh.49.1614319669244; Thu, 25 Feb 2021 22:07:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from TVPC (c-73-158-116-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.158.116.21]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b15sm7555097pgg.85.2021.02.25.22.07.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Feb 2021 22:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Sender: Larry Masinter <masinter@gmail.com>
From: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>
X-Google-Original-From: "Larry Masinter" <lmm@acm.org>
To: 'Keith Moore' <moore@network-heretics.com>, 'Carsten Bormann' <cabo@tzi.org>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
References: <37eecb9b-f0eb-e21c-b162-b1f0339e4981@si6networks.com> <3c2d646d-f18d-4d88-b458-29dbd486432b@beta.fastmail.com> <446A8D6B-E624-49E0-B67E-D1F8AFC794E2@lastpresslabel.com> <28ac1e86-f641-b9e8-0f61-6ff442feaa90@si6networks.com> <LO2P265MB057322BA95B1B44D4175356BC29E9@LO2P265MB0573.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <089096b1-10d2-3eac-d37c-f040a1930061@network-heretics.com> <37142313-C251-40DC-9336-D3A2F0FB69AD@tzi.org> <001d01d70be3$ff0972d0$fd1c5870$@acm.org> <0e48bf6b-c4eb-20ac-c183-c5ea303bf52d@network-heretics.com>
In-Reply-To: <0e48bf6b-c4eb-20ac-c183-c5ea303bf52d@network-heretics.com>
Subject: RE: document writing/editing tools used by IETF
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 22:07:47 -0800
Message-ID: <010101d70c05$b54e5b20$1feb1160$@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0
Content-Language: en-us
Thread-Index: AQLT1bdL7pqR2nvaftdkRCfHM2U8nwKGphCgAhOj+SoBLW9aDwGyzqaoAugWWj4CTmHmYwH0t6CAAZEPqrKn7pf+0A==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/oFXKnHgcQRgi0McGmSfxKu3vROs>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 06:08:24 -0000

Better in the sense that they were explicitly designed and managed for the exact purpose of document publication and review, unlike GitHub, which was designed for managing code in some programming languages, and only poorly adapted for editing technical specifications.

You can do your own search but, for example,
https://getvoip.com/blog/2020/06/25/document-collaboration-tools/

certainly I don't propose IETF select one. My proposal is a restriction of yours: not to allow ANY format for an I-D but just to allow document submission in HTML or PDF (and not just plain text or XML2RFC).

The reasoning is to allow authors/editors to choose their own development tools, most of which can produce PDF or HTML but few can produce (legible) text/plain or XML2RFC.

Historical note: My co-author of RFC 1867 in 1995 was working on Xerox DocuShare, which needed form-based file upload for online document collaboration.

--
https://LarryMasinter.net https://interlisp.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 6:46 PM
> To: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>; 'Carsten Bormann' <cabo@tzi.org>
> Cc: ietf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: document writing/editing tools used by IETF
> 
> On 2/25/21 9:06 PM, Larry Masinter wrote:
> 
> >   For collaboration, there's a generation of collaborative tools from Google
> Docs to Dropbox and Microsoft tools that are a lot better than GitHub for
> collaboration.
> 
> Better in what sense?  I try to not let most of my computers talk to Google,
> for example, because they're so invasive.   (Not sure about Dropbox or
> Microsoft because I basically never have any reason to use anything
> produced by either.)
> 
> Keith
>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email