Re: Registration of media type application/calendar+xml
Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net> Fri, 10 September 2010 18:36 UTC
Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5224B3A68AB for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:36:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.653
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.653 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.946, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_83=0.6, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kfM5-Xw1PVtu for <ietf@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 950B53A6819 for <IETF@IETF.ORG>; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.4] (ppp-68-120-198-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.120.198.81]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id o8AIabSS029951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:36:43 -0700
Message-ID: <4C8A7AB2.5090500@dcrocker.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:36:34 -0700
From: Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100825 Thunderbird/3.1.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Registration of media type application/calendar+xml
References: <F842A373EE7E9C439CA07CCB01BBD1D0564C4899@TK5EX14MBXC138.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <341B449F-7DFE-4A40-84B0-D008658A08DF@cs.utk.edu> <01NRP8H2AP2Y003JZ5@mauve.mrochek.com>
In-Reply-To: <01NRP8H2AP2Y003JZ5@mauve.mrochek.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:36:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:47:44 -0700
Cc: ietf-types@iana.org, Steven Lees <Steven.Lees@microsoft.com>, Douglass Mike <douglm@rpi.edu>, IETF@IETF.ORG
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:36:48 -0000
On 9/9/2010 8:38 PM, Ned Freed wrote: >> This was a bad idea when it was first proposed (if I recall correctly) around >> ten years ago, and it's still a bad idea. > > I strongly disagree. > >> Whenever you define an alternate representation of something, there will >> inevitably be skew between the original representation and the alternate >> representation. > > This is demonstrably false. We need to distinguish between alternate syntactic forms, versus alternate semantic environments. Translating between versions of the former do not need to lose information. Translating between versions of the latter almost certainly do. Losing information is about differences in semantics. As I understand the calendar+xml, it is "merely" a syntactic alternative. To the extent that it requires information loss when being re-encoded, yes that should be fixed. But it's not likely to be difficult and the existence of two syntactic forms is not inherently problematic. (We have lots of examples on the net of doing this quite nicely, at different layers of Internet architecture.) As for the more abstract discussion about whether it's good or bad to have an xml version, I'll strongly suggest that it is best conducted in a real bar bof with real alcohol. (I'll be supporting its existence, FWIW.) The xml version is an important fact of life. Let's not pretend otherwise. It is not the job of the MIME registration process to make political statements that give preferential treatment to facts of life that some might like more than other facts of life... Register the damn thing. The registration form appears to satisfy registration requirements. If there are specific problems with the associated spec, pursue them independently and concretely, please. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… ned+ietf
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Tony Finch
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Julian Reschke
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Julian Reschke
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Julian Reschke
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… ned+ietf
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Julian Reschke
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… ned+ietf
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Dave CROCKER
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… ned+ietf
- Re: Registration of media type application/calend… Keith Moore