Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director
Mary Barnes <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com> Mon, 04 March 2013 17:51 UTC
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Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 11:51:40 -0600
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Subject: Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director
From: Mary Barnes <mary.ietf.barnes@gmail.com>
To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
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Cc: Dave Crocker <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
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On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote: > Dave: > >>> The leadership in the ITU does not read the documents. Why? Their job is to make sure that the process was followed. >>> >>> The IESG needs to make sure the process was followed too. But, the IESG also has a quality check job. I would hate for this debate to lead to a step toward the ITU model. >> >> >> As specious lines of logic go, your note was pretty efficient. It ignored the specifics of the concerns being raised in this thread, their merits, and the suggestions being made, and it invokes a cliche'd bogeyman. >> >> For example, the suggestions being made do not intent or imply that there would be no technical content to the work of an AD. Also note that there are many things that the ITU does; are we supposed to make a point of not doing any of them, simply because the ITU does them? >> >> The IETF culture, structure and process are massively different from the ITU's. None of the changes being proposed would turn the IETF into the ITU or even move us towards them. >> >> If the merit of a suggestion is good or bad, let's focus on that, rather than on who else is or is not doing it. >> >> But if you really want to focus on ITU fear, take a look at the time it now takes to produce IETF specs, their increased complexity and the degree of their eventual industry deployment. A comparison on the style and substance of IETF vs. ITU technical work might prove enlightening... > > Several people suggested that the AD could be a manager with little technical clue. I raised the extreme of that line of thinking. [MB] I don't think anyone has said an AD could be a manager with little technical clue. I think Sam said it extremely well in his email. What some of us have been proposing is that someone with proven technical skills in another area that also is good at managing projects/people could do a reasonable job. From what I have seen this has certainly been the case in other areas - i.e., ADs that don't have depth of knowledge in all the WGs in their areas, but are strong technical individuals in other areas. The problem seems to be that folks value the technical expertise far more than they do project and people management skills. The end result is that there are some really strong technical people in leadership roles that have little ability to manage things well and very poor people interaction skills. The latter is certainly a very negative personality trait when it comes to motivating and managing volunteers. [/MB] > > It is clear that no single person has all of the detailed knowledge to review every aspect of every IETF document. That said, it is very important that the AD have enough clue to detect a probable concern, and then they can turn to appropriate experts in the form of directorates, personal contacts, or even a plea for the right mail list. This requires some insight into the core technologies for the area and good working relationships within the area. > > Russ >
- Appointment of a Transport Area Director IETF Chair
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director John C Klensin
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Scott Brim
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Michael Richardson
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Scott Brim
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Randy Bush
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director John Leslie
- RE: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Leaf Yeh
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eliot Lear
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Melinda Shore
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Ralph Droms
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Hector Santos
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Stewart Bryant
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director John Leslie
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dale R. Worley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Loa@pi.nu
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Elwyn Davies
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Allison Mankin
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Randy Bush
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Scott Brim
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eliot Lear
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eliot Lear
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Allison Mankin
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Benoit Claise
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Alia Atlas
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Benoit Claise
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Wesley Eddy
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- RE: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- RE: Appointment of a Transport Area Director l.wood
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director PFRC - jhaas
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Bob Braden
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joe Touch
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Melinda Shore
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joe Touch
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Carsten Bormann
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director David Kessens
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Jari Arkko
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Jari Arkko
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Michael StJohns
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joe Touch
- How do they select people (was: Appointment of a … SM
- Re: How do they select people joel jaeggli
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director S Moonesamy
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Carsten Bormann
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Greg Shepherd
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director David Kessens
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director David Kessens
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Samuel Weiler
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling