Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> (The Tao of IETF: A Novice's Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force) to Informational RFC]
Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com> Thu, 31 May 2012 16:55 UTC
Return-Path: <melinda.shore@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CD8021F86F7 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 31 May 2012 09:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id edZB4dq29RYk for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 31 May 2012 09:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pz0-f44.google.com (mail-pz0-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA4621F86F6 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 31 May 2012 09:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by dacx6 with SMTP id x6so1540713dac.31 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 31 May 2012 09:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+bqv4Fs3atphw2KgorgSXPqWN9XAS7XbbTWY8Y2+XrY=; b=qA7HEJ91j/+oJ+5ybE85zOuSjbpiipT4MNW5IN3HF18rf9ux1ao4MdYywLh1grKvcl sPlj9Qb2nzXyJUs7KMBnncdtsefqdIGjDYXTHSW1BJAtFKUQFjL6HVZtEMSHR70GPDGo gPJkZql6Zfid/PaXIa/VtVoVOTFXeRfVS4BXcTQs3kSejBdwzBT+3yZTJzWZoU53eyja uQi4whYWsFJhlb3E2fGZckg0LBF3+LeD4Ey0HG3IkVpYiXlkswmIeyA8PUcvwVm9q2OU Bv9tcPaRw15kMRGVXX+7SlujlhpdP8oLKgvcQ/9Ge+iRAqx0WY1xTuXi5hK5KowtBLd5 uh0A==
Received: by 10.68.237.166 with SMTP id vd6mr1129254pbc.139.1338483350164; Thu, 31 May 2012 09:55:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Melindas-iMac.local (66-230-85-178-rb1.fai.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net. [66.230.85.178]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rs3sm4710609pbc.47.2012.05.31.09.55.48 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 31 May 2012 09:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <4FC7A293.20502@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 08:55:47 -0800
From: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> (The Tao of IETF: A Novice's Guide to the Internet Engineering Task Force) to Informational RFC]
References: <20120530225655.19475.74871.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4FC6CE2F.70903@stpeter.im> <4FC71178.2050401@gmail.com> <4FC716B8.2090208@dcrocker.net> <4FC71CC9.2000604@gmail.com> <4FC72213.8060800@bbiw.net> <4FC732D3.7090904@cs.tcd.ie> <4FC7345E.807@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <4FC7345E.807@cisco.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 16:55:51 -0000
On 5/31/12 1:05 AM, Klaas Wierenga wrote: > As a non-native speaker I agree. I think colloquial is fine. The one > thing causes me some trouble is all the references that Americans make > to sports that nobody in the civilized world cares about ;-) ("left > field", "Hail Mary passes" etc.) But I think the Tao pretty much avoids > those (perhaps "Home base" is the exception). A previous employer's HR team put together training material for those of us who were helping with university recruiting and it was one extended American football metaphor. Since nearly all the engineers who were volunteering were Indian or Chinese it turned out to be more confusing than effective (and not necessarily understandable by North American nerds, either). I tend to use a lot of idiomatic language when I write but I do understand the issues around use of regional idioms, and I note that so far of the non-native speakers who've commented, all are either European or Israeli. I'm wondering if regional idioms are as clear to people from east, southeast, and south Asian countries. Also, for whatever it's worth, the English idioms under discussion all seem to be American. Melinda
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Eliot Lear
- Mission statement [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-… Brian E Carpenter
- Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffma… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Dave Crocker
- ICANN relationship [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Dave Crocker
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Yoav Nir
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Dave Crocker
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … SM
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Klaas Wierenga
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Simon Perreault
- Re: Mission statement [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoff… John C Klensin
- Re: Mission statement [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoff… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … John C Klensin
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Fred Baker
- Re: Mission statement [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoff… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Brian E Carpenter
- IANA [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Melinda Shore
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Martin Rex
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Yoav Nir
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Ben Niven-Jenkins
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Joel jaeggli
- Making the Tao a web page Paul Hoffman
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Nick Hilliard
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Fadi Mohsen
- Re: Making the Tao a web page John C Klensin
- Re: Making the Tao a web page SM
- RE: Making the Tao a web page GT RAMIREZ, Medel G.
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… John Levine
- Re: IANA [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… Thierry Moreau
- Re: IANA [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… Fred Baker
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call:<draft-hof… t.p.
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call:<draft-hof… Randy Bush
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call:<draft-hof… Yoav Nir
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Thomas Nadeau
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Nick Hilliard
- Re: IANA [Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… David Conrad
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Russ Housley
- Re: Colloquial language [Re: Last Call: <draft-ho… Joel jaeggli
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Eric Burger
- Re: Making the Tao a web page John C Klensin
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Melinda Shore
- Re: Making the Tao a web page SM
- Re: Making the Tao a web page John C Klensin
- Re: Making the Tao a web page John C Klensin
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Lixia Zhang
- Re: Making the Tao a web page SM
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Dave Crocker
- Re: Making the Tao a web page SM
- Re: Making the Tao a web page Lucy Lynch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Bradner, Scott
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Bradner, Scott
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Bradner, Scott
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … Glen Zorn
- [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15… Glen Zorn
- Re: [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… Randy Bush
- Re: [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… Glen Zorn
- RE: [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… John Levine
- Re: [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bi… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-hoffman-tao4677bis-15.txt> … John C Klensin