Re: net.stewards [Re: BitTorrent (Was: Re: [Isms] ISMS charter broken- onus should be on WG to fix it)]

Marc Manthey <marc@let.de> Fri, 16 September 2005 15:13 UTC

Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EGHuK-0008IO-0T; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:13:44 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EGHuG-0008H9-Ge for ietf@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:13:40 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22650 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:13:37 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from relay1.mail.vrmd.de ([81.28.232.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EGHzB-0000PH-74 for ietf@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:18:52 -0400
Received: from [213.196.205.36] (helo=[192.168.1.23]) by vm8.bln2.vrmd.de with asmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1EGHth-000250-PU for ietf@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:13:06 +0200
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734)
In-Reply-To: <20050916132930.136EF3BFEDB@berkshire.machshav.com>
References: <20050916132930.136EF3BFEDB@berkshire.machshav.com>
Message-Id: <83ED2F85-B07B-41A3-AF93-F7A132B50A1F@let.de>
From: Marc Manthey <marc@let.de>
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:12:59 +0200
To: IETF General Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734)
X-Relay-User: marc@let.de
X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: d2b46e3b2dfbff2088e0b72a54104985
Subject: Re: net.stewards [Re: BitTorrent (Was: Re: [Isms] ISMS charter broken- onus should be on WG to fix it)]
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1387736693=="
Sender: ietf-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ietf-bounces@ietf.org

On Sep 16, 2005, at 3:29 PM, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:

> In message <432A92C1.5040003@zurich.ibm.com>om>, Brian E Carpenter  
> writes:
>
>> Michael Thomas wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Perfect. And then someone with less clue decided to
>>> plant Kudzu. We have nothing to say about that?
>>>
>>
>> I just read today that kudzu extract may reduce the desire
>> for alcohol (Scientific American, 8/2005, p 17). What seems
>> evil may not always be evil.
>>
>
> Have you ever lived in the southern U.S.?  It's amazing driving  
> through
> some areas, where you see kudzu covering trees, barns, telephone  
> polls,
> and some slow-moving cows...

wow, i never heard of it but it looks very nice

http://www.jjanthony.com/kudzu/

greetings

>
>
>>>
>>> I know that we aren't the net.cops, but are we not
>>> net.stewards either?
>>>
>>
>> Up to a point, but there are limits to what we can do.
>>
>> We can request that the RFC Editor not publish things we think
>> are damaging. The IESG does this a few times a year. Similarly,
>> we can request that IANA not register things we think are
>> damaging, or at least to label them as potentially dangerous.
>>
>> We can publish screeds about damaging practices. The IAB does this
>> a few times a year.
>>
>> We can try to develop non-damaging solutions for requirements where
>> the easy solutions are damaging, and we can try to repair our own
>> damage (as HTTP 1.1 repairs HTTP 1.0).
>>
>> We can try to ensure that the Internet can 'route around damage' -
>> that's one of the main reasons for defending the e2e principle,
>> for example.
>>
>> But we can't prevent people from deploying solutions that we
>> didn't develop, and we shouldn't even try to IMHO.
>>
>>
>
> Agreed.  Sometimes the IETF does the initial engineering, sometimes it
> has to do garbage collection and repair, and hope that the operators
> can cope in the meantime.
>
>         --Steven M. Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf mailing list
> Ietf@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>
>

-- 
" Sic transit gloria mundi"
Les Enfants Terribles
www.let.de


_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf