Re: [ietf-smtp] IETF Policy on dogfood consumption or avoidance - SMTP version

"Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com> Wed, 18 December 2019 00:40 UTC

Return-Path: <rsalz@akamai.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD6E120074; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:40:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.701
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2wmleYVT1of9; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:40:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FBD6120033; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:40:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0050095.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0050095.ppops.net-00190b01. (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id xBI0OXQc020564; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 00:40:47 GMT
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=akamai.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=jan2016.eng; bh=QGDzKTshVuI6QrnKqfpDQB4nDeFf+QprrHy/wOqtkk8=; b=F/ycTBUTc2A8kOJP5MmbTUpinqei8Pd5P9wcRzpuO4lBTaZVika2xkeu3/ez7ndes0oq QeebrMNPH+TSMklJO6K7y5dhxaaq9UCe8hZK6qwrQ/UjsRA7rSVQq7czuVwPNItCl6Xc 8SCCgxjVj/Q6sOWmOSVvIYOGDKC/358ZmG6TYZbC0xwRtxuPJLmuBpzoGgxYeQ8uJiUm dntpdxSPGbdSABPGK6POUtQSmMOCkZUhtLkoERUi0y3wRR6ynuiHbQBUyIapOF/j30qz JTn2HAtK8jhs56fr6Cr7XAkiRQijBUUoQm6lhBUT2LavoYO+2x+rACVPxw0L6NgpeLcE iw==
Received: from prod-mail-ppoint7 (prod-mail-ppoint7.akamai.com [96.6.114.121] (may be forged)) by m0050095.ppops.net-00190b01. with ESMTP id 2wvr596v12-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 18 Dec 2019 00:40:47 +0000
Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint7.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint7.akamai.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id xBI0Mkp8005157; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:40:46 -0500
Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.53]) by prod-mail-ppoint7.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2wvuy2u2mx-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:40:45 -0500
Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB5.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.105) by usma1ex-dag3mb2.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:40:45 -0500
Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.103) by usma1ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.123.105) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:40:44 -0500
Received: from USMA1EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) by usma1ex-dag1mb3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.123.103]) with mapi id 15.00.1473.005; Tue, 17 Dec 2019 19:40:44 -0500
From: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
To: "hsantos@isdg.net" <hsantos@isdg.net>, "ietf-smtp@ietf.org" <ietf-smtp@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ietf-smtp] IETF Policy on dogfood consumption or avoidance - SMTP version
Thread-Topic: [ietf-smtp] IETF Policy on dogfood consumption or avoidance - SMTP version
Thread-Index: AQHVtS5tYCvHSVMCKUaIQ+AMnLOYfae/DTGA
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 00:40:44 +0000
Message-ID: <09AD6F9E-311A-4000-B830-43AA92C78C46@akamai.com>
References: <8EE11B75E1F8A7E7105A1573@PSB> <m2a77ttff6.wl-randy@psg.com> <CABL0ig4Wz-0dk7bsRpaN6pni2rHEc-jPnygwed_Hygy+CiehQA@mail.gmail.com> <16306b3a-63bd-621e-636c-dd7626f74733@foobar.org> <DBADBA1F-5F81-4D14-8AF8-5F340F017DAC@ietf.org> <5DF92645.2090909@isdg.net> <E314E2AC-C69C-4828-AD5F-33C0EFD4E0FE@dukhovni.org> <5DF95EF7.4050200@isdg.net>
In-Reply-To: <5DF95EF7.4050200@isdg.net>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.20.0.191208
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: [172.19.112.231]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <A8E41B2EDDA4F14F8CBF2F7B53AA685F@akamai.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-12-17_05:, , signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=624 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1912180001
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.95,18.0.572 definitions=2019-12-17_05:2019-12-17,2019-12-17 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=594 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-1912180001
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/r5grBV9UC5gHYR9En4HCXBDDpRw>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 00:40:58 -0000

>    We may have to explicitly embed this clause in the protocol:  
>          A "MUST NOT" protocol element MAY be overridden with "550" Policies.
    
Bleh. We often say "we're not the protocol police."

I think it's always clear that local policy can override.

Is the IETF going to come and arrest it's own website?