Re: registries and designated experts
SM <sm@resistor.net> Tue, 12 June 2012 20:19 UTC
Return-Path: <sm@resistor.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5CA321F861F for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:19:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.45
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.149, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fZ4iMcqkNuaE for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDFB821F861D for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:19:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q5CKIojL012163; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1339532336; i=@resistor.net; bh=s+3vNaALEozH3G6O1ANAM33E/K6+XMWeEsrZLLMfQM0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=sIXV4agjeUUZNWIWQ2sj65+Hygdwj3MY16dRw+jZSHtYDshhvX9bLTxgMHrDZAY7g N3LGTkF+PBURlJu2Gcmhne5wGnA3AJa/j54qpO0McFJVN96GWPREm4I/5CQGW9pvaX Adg8UdFRezhbE6MnIB+1iciqsK7Fj6zrL+lpTgjk=
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1339532336; i=@resistor.net; bh=s+3vNaALEozH3G6O1ANAM33E/K6+XMWeEsrZLLMfQM0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=25KVUScRxGohS9JIDhg/kDRBldLzTgLZJTuR4qo8Fex0NJWTbHNxfv221G+tXs6SW IZpcnKjnCg3zPRidP4zztdruzE5xB6+nhsgH1a2vlAwp8ORs0Vjx2boYJZxsz8I7Ca Vueq2ccghnEVmsC4qR/sAclVe4PCVy75GyY0GPi4=
Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120612114107.091f2a80@resistor.net>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:48:48 -0700
To: ietf@ietf.org
From: SM <sm@resistor.net>
Subject: Re: registries and designated experts
In-Reply-To: <4FD786DC.4090403@gmail.com>
References: <4FCDD499.7060206@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4FCDE96E.5000109@cs.tcd.ie> <4FD7083A.6080502@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <4FD74FFC.3050905@stpeter.im> <6.2.5.6.2.20120612073602.09c8cbb8@resistor.net> <4FD786DC.4090403@gmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Cc: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:19:03 -0000
At 11:13 12-06-2012, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >I don't understand that statement. RFC 5226 says, in Section 2 about >"Why Management of a Namespace May Be Necessary": > >" A third, and perhaps most important, consideration concerns potential > impact on the interoperability of unreviewed extensions." > >One of the specific considerations for designated experts in section 3.3 >is > >" - the extension would cause problems with existing deployed > systems." > >It seems clear that interoperability is a primary concern for any >expert review. This gets you into the level of review (see Barry's comment). The easiest policy is FSFC. The next step is Expert Review which is supposed to have clear guidelines. If you want interoperability, there's Specification Required. It seems from the above that the argument is about avoiding problems with deployed systems. At 11:38 12-06-2012, John C Klensin wrote: >I've with Barry on this. The details of the expectations of an >expert reviewer, including the thresholds for approval, should >be specified in whatever document sets up the particular >registry. One size does not fit all; "Expert Review" is a >designation of a mechanism and not a set of criteria. Agreed. >We should, IMO, do two things in this area: > >(1) When a document specifies "Expert Review" for a registry, it >should be required to spell out the criteria the Expert is >supposed to use, at least to the degree that isn't obvious. If >it doesn't, that should be grounds for "DISCUSS until fixed". I like the idea of spelling up the criteria. >(2) If it turns out that an Expert for a particular registry is >not behaving as people expect, part of the process for getting >that fixed (or even complaining about it), should be to see if >the registry-creating documents are clear about procedures and >criteria. If they are not, an effort to update those criteria >would be a useful way to discuss the issues and not the >individual expert. Of course, Experts who knowingly violate >clear criteria should be summarily fired -- but I think we can >trust that to the IESG and note that it has almost never been >necessary. The people who come to the registry may not know much about the process. I wonder if they are aware that there is a path to complain if there are not satisfied. Even then, they may find it easier to walk away. I don't think that the individual expert is the issue. The better path is to have clear documentation (what you mentioned above) about the criteria so that the registrant can tell what the expectations are. I'll add publication of the median time to process a request as information for the registrant. Regards, -sm
- APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07 Martin J. Dürst
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07 Stephen Farrell
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07 … Martin J. Dürst
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07 … Stephen Farrell
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07,… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07,… Stephen Farrell
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07,… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07,… Stephen Farrell
- registries and designated experts (was: Re: APPSD… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: registries and designated experts Dave Crocker
- Re: registries and designated experts (was: Re: A… Barry Leiba
- Re: registries and designated experts (was: Re: A… SM
- Re: registries and designated experts Brian E Carpenter
- Re: registries and designated experts John C Klensin
- Re: registries and designated experts SM
- Re: registries and designated experts Randy Bush
- Re: registries and designated experts John C Klensin
- Re: registries and designated experts (was: Re: A… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: registries and designated experts Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: registries and designated experts Randy Bush
- Re: registries and designated experts Brian E Carpenter
- RE: registries and designated experts Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: registries and designated experts Thomas Narten
- Re: registries and designated experts ned+ietf
- Re: registries and designated experts John C Klensin
- Re: registries and designated experts Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: registries and designated experts Dave Crocker
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07,… Stephen Farrell
- Re: registries and designated experts Martin J. Dürst
- Re: registries and designated experts Stephen Farrell
- Re: registries and designated experts Martin J. Dürst
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07,… Graham Klyne
- Re: registries and designated experts Graham Klyne
- Re: APPSDIR review of draft-farrell-decade-ni-07,… Graham Klyne