Re: Planned experiment: A new mailing list for last-call discussions

Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> Fri, 13 March 2020 13:00 UTC

Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6283A176A for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 06:00:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.67
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.67 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n9NcQFacdWYY for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 05:59:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 067043A0F35 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 05:59:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 02DCxtqY004921 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:59:55 +0100
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 955CD205E07 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:59:55 +0100 (CET)
Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB5B2012DD for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:59:55 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [10.8.114.142] ([10.8.114.142]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 02DCxtwt021957 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:59:55 +0100
Subject: Re: Planned experiment: A new mailing list for last-call discussions
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <CALaySJKvdoy9MtzHMwq-Ew-EJoUs0V8t+y01FL-E5r3xdyRemQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6Sw=yoTSzD4XUKEEojspW8=Bsfv9QzDqRz5S0fHR0Cda9w@mail.gmail.com> <1UW5q6kOQ7.1wDRXqDDvh@pc8xp>
From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d55a1d6b-53a9-406a-2b1d-5b223ec24bfb@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:59:54 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <1UW5q6kOQ7.1wDRXqDDvh@pc8xp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: fr
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/rk9ksgOQ1pwvdcGnO5sPZcODzM8>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:00:01 -0000


Le 13/03/2020 à 13:10, tom petch a écrit :
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rob Sayre sayrer@gmail.com
> Sent: 13/03/2020 06:36:22
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> In my view, the experiment is a success.
> <tp>
> A partial success.  It took me a while to realise that Last  Call announcements could not be found there.  This was a particular issue last week when I blinked and while I did, in excess of 500 new posts appeared on the ietf-announce list  making any last call announcement hard to find (My MUA support is wrecked and the web interface is primitive
> 
> ---
> New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here:
> https://www.oeclassic.com/
> 
> ),  I have found myself responding to a gen-art or secdir post which can only muddy the waters as my comments are totally unrelated to their comments,
> So to make it work, please post all Last Call announcements to the Last Call list; it is obvious really.
> Tom Petch
> </tp>
> It seems like the general IETF is currently concerned with issues not related to document review.

This is the question I am raising to myself, too.

I think in general, there are very few things important right now.

I struggle to concentrate on the ietf matter precisely.

I think as long as we post here as usual, regardless of how far the 
topic is on topic or not, is a good thing.

Alex

> 
> 
> thanks,
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 2:14 AM Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> wrote:
> 
> As we discussed in the plenary session at IETF 105 in Montréal, some
> community members have suggested moving document last-call discussions
> onto a dedicated "last-call" mailing list, and off of the general
> <ietf@ietf.org> list.  The latter is a high-volume list with a lot of
> varied discussion, and some think that it would be useful to separate
> the general discussion from the last-call discussion, to allow people
> to choose which discussions (or both) to follow.  In the IETF 105
> plenary, support was expressed for that separation.
> 
> The IESG agrees, and wants to try an experiment to that end.  We
> propose to create <last-call@ietf.org> and to direct last-call
> comments and discussions there (the last-call announcements would
> still go to <ietf-announce@ietf.org>, with "reply-to" set to the new
> list).  That list would be monitored by volunteers recruited by the
> IETF Chair, and digressions would be nudged back to <ietf@ietf.org>,
> while we would ask people having last-call discussions on this list to
> please move them to the new list.  We would get the tools team
> involved so that the distribution lists for directorate and
> review-team reviews would be updated appropriately.
> 
> Our plan is to create the new list and pre-subscribe everyone who is
> subscribed to <ietf@ietf.org> at that time.  Of course, anyone could
> unsubscribe to either or both lists immediately or later, but we think
> that doing it this way would minimize the likelihood that people would
> miss important stuff because of the move, and folks can choose what
> they prefer from there.
> 
> After six months, we would do an initial evaluation, including getting
> feedback from the community, to see how the experiment is working.  If
> it seems worth continuing we would do so, and at a point that the
> community decides that the experiment is a success (should it so
> decide), we would start an update to BCP 45 to formally move the
> location for last-call discussions, and we would update the 2007 IESG
> Statement on Last Call Guidance.
> 
> We invite comments, here, on this plan, by the end of September. As I
> say above, we've heard support from the community for the general
> idea, and we'd like to make sure this direction is what the community
> wants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barry, for the IESG
>