Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-12.txt> (Guidelines for Writing an IANA Considerations Section in RFCs) to Best Current Practice
tom p. <daedulus@btconnect.com> Mon, 06 June 2016 10:22 UTC
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From: "tom p." <daedulus@btconnect.com>
To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
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Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-12.txt> (Guidelines for Writing an IANA Considerations Section in RFCs) to Best Current Practice
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Leiba" <barryleiba@computer.org> To: "Joe Touch" <touch@isi.edu> Cc: "IETF discussion list" <ietf@ietf.org> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2016 10:10 PM > > Case in point: TCP MD5. This was obsoleted by TCP-AO, but the TCP option > > number for TCP MD5 should not be changed to point to AO. It might be > > appropriate to add a note that this codepoint represents an obsoleted > > protocol or even to point to the new one - or not. It depends on the > > codepoint. > > Sure, this is a very different situation. The most current > documentation for the code point for TCP MD5 is the obsolete document. > So that's fine. TCP AO will have a new code point, with a current > reference. As I've said before, the "in current use" clause is what > applies here: It's not just that the documentation for TCP MD5 has > been updated and we're thinking about whether we should point the > reference to the new document. It's that TCP MD5 itself has been made > obsolete. > > Yes, as you say (and as I say), the point is to do what's right. I > contend that in most cases, the right thing is to update the reference > *when we produce a more current reference*. If we have not done that, > then we should not do that. > > And also as you say (and as I say), we always want to leave > flexibility to use our heads and do the right thing. That's why I'm > very happy to move away from the "in no case" phrase, to something > such as "in most cases." I pretty much *always* want to allow people > to make sensible judgments, and not to stand behind firm, inflexible > rules. At the risk of making an abstract discussion concrete, RFC7001 provides an example of how not to do it. It caused IANA to update the pointers to RFC7001 in many places but RFC7001 did not contain the relevant information on the registries, their fields, policies etc. Nor did the RFC that RFC7001 obsoleted. You had to go back to the RFC that were superseded by the RFC that were obsoleted by RFC7001, add in the updates, and piece together the information you needed. Hence RFC7601 (which used the then current draft-leiba-cotton as its guide). Compare the IANA Considerations in RFC7601 with those in RFC7001 and you can see what an expert author might come up without further, careful consideration, such as that provided by APPSAWG in March 2015:-) I think that the pointer should be to where the information about the registry is held, the fields, policy etc and if that is not reproduced in an obsoleting document, then the reference should stay to the obsoleted document. It is easy to check for updates against a document via rfc-index and, like checking for errata, it is something you have to do before you can rely on an RFC; going in the opposite direction, back in time, is harder. Of course, present day ADs do not regard the addition of an entry to a registry as a document update to the RFC that is the current definition of the registry so it is crucial that IANA separate references for new values in a registry from the reference for the registry as a whole - which IANA well understands. If the information about the registry is carried forward, then there is no problem and that is the best solution; but not all authors do that (see above). Tom Petch > Barry >
- RE: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Adrian Farrel
- RE: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Adrian Farrel
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Scott Bradner
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Donald Eastlake
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… S Moonesamy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Gmail
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Ben Campbell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Ben Campbell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Gmail
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Mark Andrews
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… John Levine
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… HANSEN, TONY L
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… tom p.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Joe Touch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Sean Turner
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Sean Turner
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Barry Leiba
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-leiba-cotton-iana-5226bis-1… Martin Rex